VFR Fuse Blowing

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by Richy, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. Richy

    Richy New Member

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    1999 VFR 800, mates bike died while out with flat battery so put a new one on which boild to death as the Reg/Rec was fooked! New reg/rec and battery, now the bike blows the 20amp fuse for the fuel pump etc. as soon as the ignition is switch on. The bike still spins over of the start button but wont start as no spark, after cleaning earths (the block in the harness to) and un plugging everything it is the Engine Stop Relay that is making the fuse blow when it is plugged in.
    Will the relay be the problem or something further down the line?
    Dose anyone point me in the direction of a wiring diagram.
    Thanks.
     
  2. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    548
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    London
    Map
    what is the voltage at your battery.....
     
  3. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

    Country:
    France
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    369
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    French Alps & London
    Map
    Hmm

    Welcome to the MadHouse

    It sounds like your friends 5th Gen has encountered some of the VFRs notorious electrical gremlins.

    Rather than run over stuff which has been already been covered extensively on this forum you should read the following thread. This shows you the most likely cause of the problems.

    http://vfrworld.com/threads/how-to-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.39277/

    Post #9 sets out "the drill" - a set of electrical system checks which you really need to do twice - once with the bike cold and then repeated after the bike has been for a 20 minute plus ride to ensure the electrical system is warmed up and any heat related faults become apparent.

    (OK you can't get the bike to start - so please see the final para)

    Sometimes a stator may test fine when cold, but after riding, heat makes the electrical windings insulation fail and instead of charging the bike it drains it rapidly and often kills the battery too. Melted connectors and dying RRs are another well known heat related failures which can also kill the stator as depending on what diode fails it can see volts fall through the floor pushing the stator to run at max output, or send far too high volts into the battery/loom also causing damage like fried wires and connectors, if the rectifier element fails your friends bike will be very unhappy handling up to 60 volts AC volts on a nominal 12 volt DC system.

    Note those tests depend on starting with a healthy charged battery - if it is suspect put it on charge and then load test it. A weak battery will give misleading test results.

    As for the Engine stop relay - it should trigger to stop the bike if the kill switch is operated, the kick stand is lowered with the bike in gear, or if the tip over sensor has been triggered. Assuming none of those apply it should not be blowing fuses - its just a relay! Which got me wondering as on my 6th Gen the fuel pump fuse is rated at 30amps. I thought the FI system was basically similar on the 5th Gen so I am surprised that the fuel injector pump operates with a significantly lower rated fuse. I have a 5th Gen manual and have just uploaded an extract to my website which seems to bear out my thoughts. Hopefully just fitting the right rated fuse will get the bike running. As you can see the 800 starting system diagram seems to show the main fuse as 30Amps! I have no idea why your bike has a 20 amp fuse - those FI pumps take a lot of current - especially at start up.


    http://www.lifford-cooke.com/motorbiking/documents/VFR800FI Charging and Starting.jpg

    Hope that helps - Let us know how you get on.


    SkiMad

    PS You might suggest your friend considers fitting a cheap digital LED voltmeter (ebay for under £10) which will allow you to see if your charging system is playing up and hopefully get to a safe place before the battery is drained and they are left stranded.
    PPS Tell them to join this forum!
     
  4. Richy

    Richy New Member

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    The bike dose not run, There is no sparks, so cant check battery voltage etc.
    It says 20amp on the fuse box lid for the fuel pump.
    All the multi blocks to the R/R were in good condition, no signs of overheating and up to now no signs/smell of overheating/melting any were else.
    New battery has good voltage and spins the motor over no problem but no sparks, the relay says RC 2208 on it and after a look on Ebay it is a common relay on Hondas and some Aprillias , every thing works on the bike but when refitted with the relay it instantly blows the fuse as soon as you switch the ignition on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  5. slovcan

    slovcan New Member

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Annapolis Valley, NS, Canada - IBA #63720
    Hi Richt,

    It seems to me that your best course of action is exactly what you asked for in your first post - trace the circuit on a wiring diagram. This is VFRWorld - why don't we have downloadable manuals and schematics available here? That is a basic thing on motorcycle forums.

    Anyway, thanks to OOTV for at least posting a link to a schematic on another thread. Unfortunately, it resides on VFRDiscussion so I don't know if you can see it without being a member there. Here is the link to it http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index....th-gen-super-high-resolution-wiring-diagrams/ . If you can't see it or open it, let me know. I have it and will try to host it on google, but not sure how exactly to do that. It is an 8.5 Mb file so I doubt I can just post it here.

    Cheers,
    Glenn
     
  6. slovcan

    slovcan New Member

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Annapolis Valley, NS, Canada - IBA #63720
    Well, let's try anyway. I reduced the file size. VFR Wiring Layers hires full 3000.png

    No, that's no good.
     
  7. MCDig

    MCDig New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2020
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Hi, I'm brand new here and new to VFR ownership; I know this thread is 3 years old, but I am having the exact same issue with my bike. The stator has less that 200 miles on it. The bike died, I pulled over and the top of the battery was pushed out. So I am guessing it over heated. The battery was a lead acid, which I think is not a good idea given the mounting angle. When I took the rear fairing off I was expecting to see a mess of melted wires, but it all looked really good, minus a blown fuel pump fuse. Now it has a fresh gel battery. As soon as I turn the key the fuel pump fuse blows right away. Hoping to bring this thread back from the dead to find out how Richy fixed his bike and maybe save me the time and effort of rooting through wires with my multi-meter.

    Thanks in advance for any help.
     
  8. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

    Country:
    France
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    369
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    French Alps & London
    Map
    Hi Mc Dig and Welcome to the MadHouse:Welcome:.

    When you get a time please swing by the Introductions part of the website and say Hi to the rest of the folks on here, perhaps add a photo or two - its easy click (upload a file) lnk below and follow the prompts. Tell us a bit about you and your motorbike(s). If you update your forum profile to include an approximate location city/state is ample so if you need help you may find someone lives nearby and willing to help especially if you have a well stocked beer fridge :drink:.

    As for your current problem - it is difficult to advise as you do not say what model VFR you own or any of the history/events prior to it failing.

    However fuses do not blow and Batteries do not explode for no reason. Those symptoms sound very much like the RR has failed and now allowing 50+ volts emerging from the stator into circuits designed for a nominal 12. I really suggest you spend time looking though the following thread.

    https://vfrworld.com/threads/how-to-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.39277/

    But do not assume if you find one defect you are good to go. Sadly all 4 elements of the charging system(RR, Stator, Battery, Loom) need to be in good health otherwise a fault in any one can damage some or all of the others. So take your time and follow the drill which should confirm what is OK and what is not. If you need help deciphering results just post up.

    Let us know how you get on. - Good Luck



    SkiMad
     
  9. MCDig

    MCDig New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2020
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Thanks
    Thanks for the welcome Skimad. I ended up resolving the fuse problem. It was the ECU. It is running now but other problems have cropped up so I will probably make a new post to see if anyone has some good ideas on how to fix them. Thanks again!
     
  10. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

    Country:
    France
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    369
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    French Alps & London
    Map

    That actually sounds quite worrying. Are you saying that by swapping out the ECU you fixed the fuse blowing?

    I have a feeling even if you managed to source a second hand ECU it would not be cheap and, as ECUs tend to last for eternity, you really should be finding and fixing whatever killed the orginal ECU rather than assuming that by replacing the ECU you have solved stuff.

    You still have not explained what VFR you own, but for a VFR with an ECU, my guess is its a 5th/6th gen which are both notorious for suffering charging system problems. Among the failure outcomes is the RR can sometimes fail internally and allow 50+ AC volts into a system designed for a nominal 12 volts DC. AC can be really bad (expensive) news for sensitive integrated circuitry components - with your ECU among the components at risk.

    It is so important to check that all 4 elements(Battery, RR, Stator,Loom) of your charging system are healthy, as a fault in any one can damage some or all of the others. It is possibly dangerous(costly) to assume that once you have found one faulty component you can stop checking. There have been plenty of instances where Stator and RR have both failed and gone on to boil the battery dry. also melting connectors on the wiring loom and eventually blowing the main fuse in the loom near the battery.

    You may want to search on here for "the drill". I know multi-meter checking can seem a scary chore, but it is probably the best way to avoid throwing a shed load of cash at replacing parts which may or may not be the real cause of the problems with you VFR.

    Take care



    SkiMad
     
  11. raYzerman

    raYzerman Member

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2019
    Messages:
    1,228
    Likes Received:
    450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Millgrove, ON
    Map
  12. MCDig

    MCDig New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2020
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Thanks guys for the support. The bike is indeed a 5th gen. model year 1998. I figured that at very least the regulator was shot, but had to get it started to test it out, so that's why I was focusing on that fuse first. The ECU, wasn't too bad, $99 on eBay including shipping.. I also got a mosfet reg from an old R1, FHO11AA , and installed that along with some heavier duty wiring. So now battery, stator and regulator are all up to snuff. My big mistake was not checking everything after it failed to start that morning, I just bump started it and took off. Along with the ECU, both headlights blew, and the tachometer and the speedo are out. I made a separate post about that. Thanks again.
     
Related Topics

Share This Page