Want to start doing track days

Discussion in 'Racing & Track Days' started by chesthing, Jul 4, 2007.

  1. chesthing

    chesthing New Member

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    A full size track will FINALLY be opening up in the Denver area next spring and want to participate. My 2 options - 1) put $1500 into the 2000 VFR's suspension and maybe get an extra set of wheels and keep slicks on them for track days or 2) just use the VFR for the street and buy a $400 bike carrier and spend $3000 on a track only bike such as a F4 or ZX-6R that maybe has a salvage title and beat farings but is mechanically sound, won't register or insure the bike. Kind of like this deal http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/366070619.html

    What's better money spent? any opinions appreciated, especially from those with experience with track days on the VFR and/or a 600.
     
  2. R.W.

    R.W. New Member

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    I would buy the 600 for track use only, It would be very painful for me to watch my beloved 99 go skidding down the track :eek:
     
  3. Rev

    Rev New Member

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    +1 on this. It's THE reason I don't do track days with my VFR. At some point I'll pick up a salvage bike and have some fun with it.
     
  4. chesthing

    chesthing New Member

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    Out of my 2 choices which do you think would be more fun on a 2 1/2 mile track? Let's assume I won't wreck...
     
  5. R.W.

    R.W. New Member

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    I would say the 600, It's about a 130 pounds lighter and a lot less work in the corners, you would just have to get use to the inline and being between 10,000-15,000 on the tach...
     
  6. pcohenchicago

    pcohenchicago New Member

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    I'd go with the dedicated bike as well. The pain to tie up your kick stand, take of mirrors, tape up your lights yadda yadda on your day-to-day bike is going to piss you off. Get a bike you can dedicate to the track if it's somethign you are going to do often.
     
  7. two4one

    two4one New Member

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    First off congratulations on taking the single biggest step to improving your riding skills!

    Second of all from first hand experience I would buy a dedicated bike if the following two factors hold true:

    1. You are CERTAIN you are going to continue to ride the track on a frequent basis.
    2. You have the cash laying around to spend on a dedicated bike. There is no point to having a dedicated bike sitting there if you won't ride it on the track at least once a month or so.

    Based on your post, I'm assuming this will be your first trip to the track, therefore, there is no guarantee that you will enjoy it. I know the chances are slim but I've seen it happen where people don't feel comfortable with it and decide not to continue. Give yourself a chance to experience it first before dropping cash on the bike, suspension, etc.

    In regards to tire selection, you won't require a full slick until way down the road if ever. Buy yourself a set of Pirelli Diablo Corsa tires and have at it. I used these tires exclusively well into my time with the Advanced group with NESBA. They have several advantages over a full slick especially if you are just starting out.

    • They don't require a tire warmer
    • No generator to lug around
    • Can be used in the rain
    • Excellent wear
    • Can be run on the street if you choose
    • Cheaper than a full slick

    Keep in mind you can use a Pilot Power or whatever brand is similar in function to a Corsa. I don't mean to start a tire debate, it's personal preference. The jist is you will not "outride" a Corsa tire until well into your track riding career. Save the cash and use it on more track days!

    I've gone full circle. I started my track riding days on my street bike, realized I was hooked and bought a 1997 F3 for $2500. I ran it until I made to the "A" group which is when I started to reduce my track schedule so I sold it. Why? Because I knew I was only going to ride the track on rare occasion so I didn't want a bike sitting there doing nothing. From now on, I'll be using my '03 VFR as my "track bike" when I want to go. If I knew I was going to go as frequent as I did before, I would have kept my track bike or bought another one. It's all about frequency and risk. If you go a lot, you ARE going to crash which is why a dedicated machine makes all the sense in the world. Otherwise, taking the chance might be the best option...and it is a chance. I understand the chance I'm taking and fully accept it so I'm OK with it. My insurance company covers track damage because it's a "learning" environment, not a race. Something to consider (State Farm).

    I use(d) my little Sentra SE-R to pull my $450 4x6 open trailer to the track. It worked out very well and was more than adequate.

    This is all just my $.02. Again congrats on taking the plunge. You'll get a whole new education in a short time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2007
  8. rmcobb

    rmcobb New Member

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    Everything two4one just said is spot on.

    I tried a trackday with my VFR (when I still had it) and knew it was something I wanted to do. I purchased a F4i and did 7-8 days a year for 3 years, and just recently sold it figuring I got most of the "need for speed" out of my system. If I want to do an occassional track day, I can use my new Tuono. I had a blast.

    Having a dedicated bike is the only way to go. You can put the soft rubber on and leave it on, and not worry about burning them up. Tires are the most expensive part of track days, well besides the suspension upgrades, that you'll be dealing with.

    My advice, like others have said, DO IT. Your riding ability will take a huge jump, especially if you can take some classes (Code, Pridmore, etc.) during the process. You can use your own bike in these classes, which makes it cheaper, plus you'll be familiar with your ride as opposed to jumping on a strange machine.
     
  9. chesthing

    chesthing New Member

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    Thanks for all replies. Dry weight of a 2000 F4 is 375, mine is 458 so there's only 77 lbs diff - it would certainly be felt but it's not 130 lbs. This is a close call, because I only plan on 3-5 track days a year. Plus, I could ride to the park instead of loading it on a bike carrier - but, it'd be a pain to tape lights and replace antifreeze with water. I agree the first step is to do a track day in Pueblo and confirm I want to do this, but I'm already scratching pegs in the mountains at 6:00am and that's after raising the rear 3/4". I'm mostly doing this to stop using public roads (albeit through national parks) as racetracks.
     
  10. Rev

    Rev New Member

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    When you did your weight calculations did you take into account removal of all the unnecessary items? Might not make 130 but it'd be significant.
     
  11. two4one

    two4one New Member

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    Seriously the weight won't be a big deal. That's an unimportant factor until you start getting into a little bit more. Do not make the decision based on potential weight savings. If your legs are in any kind of shape, it won't be an issue and you won't be setting the world on fire right away. Your bike is plenty competitive with everyone else who is just starting out, keep it simple.

    If you're scraping the pegs, you need to get to the track ASAP because you're not getting off the bike enough. You're gonna' dig one of 'em into the road and launch yourself. Just an FYI, I had the stock rear sets on my F3 and only touched them twice! EVER! Get your ass of the seat pronto! Not trying to be an ass but I've seen that happen unfortunately.

    [​IMG]

    Oh and they make you put water in the radiator for beginners?
     
  12. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    There's a pic in vfrworld of a guy who made a dedicated 5th gen - I wish I could remember his name. But any hoo - The bike is stripped of all lights and center stand, has a carbon slip-on, of course the mirrors and signals. The front fairing has glass to cover where the lights would be for a "race face". - Thats the bike that made me think about a dedicated 5th gen for the track.

    - I am figuring that I could get to a 430 dry number - throw in my delink work.
    A dedicated 5th gen is very appealling to me - my issue with 600s has been as a guy whos run bigger bore rides + vfrs is the lack of torque drives me nuts and you gotta rev the piss outta them. Sure I could adapt, but a trackbike that mirrors my low barred 5th gen that I have now is super appealing.

    Will I run my current 5th at the track? Maybe someday - once. I couldnt bear to wad the thing since I spent a hoard of time and cash on the thing.

    Good luck, Chesthing..

    MD

    BTW 375 dry on an F4 is optimistic..
     
  13. chesthing

    chesthing New Member

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    Well, came up with a third option. I saw a Ducati ST4 w/ ohlins suspension for sale - would this make a good trackbike after taking the hard bags off? it's a little lighter and makes more hp, and I could stay with 1 bike...
     
  14. two4one

    two4one New Member

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    I would have to suggest you do a search and find out how low the ownership satisfaction is with any Ducati. Once you get beyond the initial love affair, the lack of substance will start to show through.

    I have a friend who did the same thing. Always had to be changing this and adjusting that when it was HIM who was screwing up the bike. Took him a while to get it but once he did, he was a much better rider because he was concentrating on his technique and skills instead of worrying if his tires were off by a lb. of pressure or whatever.

    That's the beauty of bikes, two different people, same bike, two different results with a given skill set. Imagine the satisfaction you would get from wasting people on "superior" bikes with a VFR? :first:

    There is great pleasure to be had when someone asks you if your 10 yr. old F3 is a litre bike, hahhahaha! :rockon:
     
  15. chesthing

    chesthing New Member

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    Just test rode it. I'm not going to go on a Ducati bashing rant, lets just say option 3 is out. But, I did like the way that Ohlins took bumps - I've decided to upgrade the VFR suspension this winter and take it to the track next spring. That way if I don't go so much I'll still have a better bike than I have now.
     
  16. chesthing

    chesthing New Member

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    Patience has never been my strongpoint, ordered the Penske double adj from Traxxion Dynamics this morning - will see it in 3-4 weeks can't wait!
     
  17. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    I have the same shock - I can tell you it's suh-weet! Unfortunately once you run it a while it will amply how bad the front end sucks.

    - I header wrapped the pipes rear then front to keep some exhaust heat off the shock - seems to be working decent. (I did the front for balance)

    - On the shock, I ended up sending it back to have the remote reservior nitrogen hose shortened for a better routing.

    MD
     
  18. chesthing

    chesthing New Member

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    Can you tell me how to mount the reservoir? a pic would be awesome.
     
  19. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    Well - I apologize in advance for being such a geek.... some pics may be in my gallery..

    The shock come with a stainless steel hose clamp that you are supposed to loop around the right side passenger footpeg. So you would have a view with this goofy clampy thingy with the resorvoir strapped to the back side. - Well I'll have none of that..

    Heres what I did. First pull the right side passenger foot off - two bolts its on the floor. - Oh yeah pull the tail body off first.. Then I took an 1/8 aluminum plate and cut it to the rough shape of the inside of the footpeg. I had a pretty good idea where i wanted the reservoir to sit so I kept this in mind. (The plate ended up roughly 5 inch by 4 inches - just a guess at this point.) I then drilled 2 holes to match the mount holes for the footpeg. (Admittedly it was kinda design as you go.) I mounted the plate and footpeg on the bike back and forth several times while bending the plate gradually to the shape of the backside of the footpeg contour. Its a gradual curve so it was fair ez. Once I had the plate/bracket thingy matching the backside of the peg, I added 2 more holes - one to the forward of the plate and one to the rear,low on the plate. These are the mounting holes for the clamps. I then purchased two 1 7/8 inch stainless hold down P -clamps to use to clamp the reservoir in location from the local speed shop. I also had the backside of the footpeg bosses machined down 1/8 inch to match the thickness of the plate. Bolt the clamps to the plate with 5mm bolts and nuts with the reservoir in it first, - and then take the plate mount the whole thing with the footpeg of course over the footpeg bosses and torque it down. Looks good! Works like a charm and me happy camper.

    I can take more pics if your into it. Maybe somebody has done something simpler. :smile:

    -- I just checked my gallery and there is a pretty good pic of my mount scheme. You can see the plate I fabbed and the clamps. (Fabbed is too good a word, it was more like hack, cut, vise and hammered, vise grip bend, and throw in some choice swear words to boot,) I also remember that I trimmed just a bit of the ABS fender plastic to get it to sit down square and generally flat with the backside of the footpeg.

    MD
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2007
  20. two4one

    two4one New Member

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    Nothing wrong with enthusiasm :biggrin:
     
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