96 VFR in trouble needs saving! Electrical prob...

Hola all,

New to the forums and in severe need of help. Electrician by trade but this issue has me stumped...

Was doing a long ride from Seattle, bike battery was dead after 8 hr shift. Did the stupid (no choice) and jumped from buddies truck. Got it running, went about 90+ miles and then it died straight out. Blew out almost every light (turn signals, low beam headlamp, and running lights), melted the 30 amp resistor (didn't blow) and blew out my Tach. Checked 10 amp Ignition fuse and was blown (in fuse box at the front of the bike) and battery was toast. Thought I had messed up the battery jumping it, so bought a new one. Full overnight charge popped it in and she started right up...

Now this is the weird part...she went about 12 more miles, stopped for gas and she never started again. She keeps blowing the 10a fuse at the box. Started isolating according to the schematic and am now down to the R/R or something more hidden. I have seen that R/R's are usually a strong culprit and seeing as the R/R isn't even the right model (previous owner spliced in a different type) and the gel backing is cracked I think it might be it...think.

I ask now for experiences from you guys, I have spent a pretty penny already on this problem and I just don't wanna take another stab in the dark...

 

i would bet that your old battery was weak or in a low state of charge, and the RR was trying to charge it with everything it could, hence the melted 30 amp fuse, which is the charge path from the RR to the battery.

All that high current overheated the RR over time and it blew something inside and cracked the case. Now as a defective RR it wasn't Regulating anymore and it blew all your lights, etc due to high overvoltage of the main buss.

Something may have melted or shorted to ground in the 10 amp fuse circuit, so it keeps blowing- have to trace that circuit and ring it out to find the short.

 

Mikedaman76

Firstly I guess I should start with a welcome to the MadHouse. :welcome:Its a shame your first post is to report problems, but your here now, so lets see what we can do to help.

Certainly the electrics and especially RR's fitted to most VFRs are not their strongest asset. If you check recent posts you will see much the same problems being reported time and again, but with careful testing its usually possible to identify what is wrong and get the bike running as it should.

Inherently there are 4 elements to the charging system on a VFR - loom, battery, RR and Stator. All four need to be in good condition and a fault in one can damage any or all of the others. The basic fault finding principles will be the same regardless so this thread which was written for 5th gen models should explain how to check the system and test each component to identify any faults. You will just need to refer to your specific manual as the components may look different and be in different locations. Hopefully it will allow you to identify just what components are OK and what need replacing.

http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gene...how-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.html

kennybobby is probably right about why your bulbs/fuses failed. Remember at 5,000rpm a healthy stator will be feeding around 60 volts AC to the RR which is meant to convert it to DC and deliver a volts range of between 12 and 15 to the bikes wiring. If the RR fails that sort of volts is more than enough to kill bulbs and fuses. The fact it now has a crack in the casing definitely puts it down on the list of things to replace as you would not want water getting inside and potentially turning the whole bike into a 60volt electric fence!

You say the failure occurred at the end of a long 8 hour ride - so I assume the electrics would have got super hot - the prime source of electrical failures. Rather than fit another OEM RR (which is not brilliant) if you can, I would be tempted to consider upgrading the RR and fitting a proper MOSFET RR which runs much cooler and delivers a healthy clean(spike free) charge to the bike. Shindengen FH020AA Mosfet Regulator/Rectifier

Anyway take your time, go through the drill and if you need help just post up your findings. Oh its customary to post up some pictures of your VFR - otherwise the folks on here will start ragging on you soon...



Good luck



SkiMad

 

Thank you guys! I will definitely post pics of the non stripped VFR once I get a handle on the prob. And thanks again to all for the insight; I figured the R/R but with some of the secondary I was just being cautious. Updates to follow!

Mike

 

Welcome to the forum.

Having your R/R go buns up and frying your electrical just makes you another member of the club. Don't go thinking you're all special and shit.:smile:

I'm sure you'll have it sorted out soon with the helpful advice above. Look forward to your update.

 

Can't be considered a VFR veteran until after you've replaced your second r/r !

 

Yeep ^ wut he sed above. High Ice-Hunchin :wave:

I just replaced all my electric shit and have no more problems, but still have other non-related bike problems. But you knew that :loco:

 

So, update. I am pretty certain after many hours of troubleshooting and wire tracing its the ICU for the bike... Got the new R/R, checked all three poles to the stator and still the 10a fuse blew. Went to the Ignition (key) and got my 12vdc from the battery. No shorts. so jumpered across to isolate the Key and used a 20a fuse and it started...for like 15 secs. Then smoke started coming from the ICU. Upon closer inspection, the ICU had a pre-existing crack in it. From what I don't know.

But, now its toast. And unless I can find a reasonably priced unit I have to call it and part out the bike. I guess my question to you great guys here is do you think that could have done it or did I induce it myself? I mean, it started! But then went up in smoke...

Please help!!

Mike

 

Oh and skymad, I took your advice and bought that R/R you spoke of. Real easy to get together...just found an ICM on Ebay for 50 bucks too! Buuutttt, still wondering what could be doing this. Everything else in the system obviously works since it did hold a nice strong idle when it did start...

 

Right, after by-passing the usual ignition circuits (where the fuse was blowing), the bike ran OK for a few seconds, before the ICM (ignition control module) went :kaboom:and you then discovered a pre-existing crack in the ICM.

The fact the bike ran OK, albeit for a few seconds, suggests you are pretty close to getting this sorted, as you may have found the real source of your grief. If the circuits inside the ICM had been compromised then I guess the ignition circuits could have been misrouted power intended for the plugs, and that would duly blow that circuits 10 amp fuse.

Buying stuff from eBay can be a gamble, but for a 96 it may be the only option and hopefully it will get you going. However before fitting the new ICM, I would be tempted to fully reinstate/return the ignition circuit wiring to OEM. If the replacement ICM is good, then the bike should fire up, and you will also know the whole starting circuits/switchgear are good to go.

Fingers crossed - you will soon be able to post up some pictures of you on that back from the grave :vtr2:




SkiMad

 

SHE LIVES!!!

For anyone dealing with something similar in the future (and to put their mind at ease) the ICU/ ECM was the culprit!! This is by far the hardest thing to trouble shoot...owners manual is no help and unless you have worked with electronics and have used wiring diagrams and such you kinda are grabbin' at straws. If anyone posts on here again with the list of symptoms I hope this might help them isolate faster. :smile:

-If your having an isolated fuse blown in the Ignition circuit ONLY.
-Any cracks in the outer shell of the ICU just replace it, its gel filled to protect against vibration but it will not keep water from penetrating the circuit and frying it. (What happened to me)
-Stick to the basics. Even on a bike as old as mine Electrical will usually fail before mechanical. For 94-97 models check the big 3: Ignition control relay, Regulator/Rectifier, and the ICU.
-Don't assume anything when dealing with a used bike. Mine was and I found a TON of half-ass fixes while fixing this issue. Go over the bike. Crimp splices with no enviro seals or heat shrink? Replace them!!
-And lastly, looking at the circuit now compared to when I started, it was the ICU the whole time. I mean, the other things would probably cause issues down the line but the failure item for this was the ICU. If you look at the circuit its the only item that handles voltages, links to like 90% of the lighting and dashboard system and has no isolation circuit (fuse) that ties into it. The R/R has to feed back through the battery and 30A fuse.

So, if your rollin' along and the bike dies and most of your lights, dash, and ignition fuse ONLY is blown...check the above LOL! You'll save your sanity and prevent hair loss! :crazy:


When the new unit came in bike started right up. After some in depth reading, I found that the brain of this bike does quite a bit and that even though she runs I am not done yet. Tach is still dead. But everything else is good to go!! :chaingun:

Final cause: found a decent amount of water inside the ICU...the heat it generates wicked it in and shorted the circuit causing the short at the 10A fuse.

Thanks to all of you for the help and insight for this undertaking! Couldn't have done it without ya!!

Mike

 

I love happy endings. Someone at the truck stop a while ago wanted a jump, I was on my Ninja 500 and my cousin was on his :rip: Zed X 11, he couldnt have jumped the sod because he had to remove his seat and needed tools to get access to the battery. Me on the other hand, was afraid of doing something to my bikes electronics.

When you initially told your story about the "jump start" that was in the back of my head. Anyway, glad its a running bike again, nothing is better really. Well, maybe poosy...:loco:

 

Mike

Glad to hear you got this sorted.


So two pieces of outstanding VFRW business

(1) update your profile to include your bike specs and a rough location (nearest city is close enough) - that way if you need to post up for help again you may find someone is nearby and willing to swing by and offer a second opinion in return for some beer tokens, and

(2) as we are still waiting to see pictures of this back from the grave bike -



Meantime its time to enjoy the rest of the riding season
:vtr2:

Take Care



SkiMad

 

Hello Mike :wave:
:welcome: to our little world, I am glad thinhgs are work out for you. Great community here a lot of Grease monkey you can count on. Now go ride and be safe ATGATT