V4 Exhaust layout...

I wonder why an aftermarket manufacturer would ever discontinue offering a certain model & year on something like an exhaust. I get why you wouldn't stock one, or heavily advertise it, but if you made it once, wouldn't it make sense that all the engineering is worked out, you keep the specs on file and then when someone comes to you, you go "ahhh yes a 1986 VF500, let's see in need 1.5' of 1" tubing with a 35 degree bend at the 1' mark..." and just make one for the customer. If you made it before it shouldn't be like you have to look at the fitament or the bends ot anything like that. And the muffler from one bike to another can't be that different out side of the collector pipes, so why couldn't a manufacturer fab one up? Never mind now when all the information would be stored on computer and you could just tell the computer to pull up file X and make it.

 

Many small companies do not use cad-cam for exhaust tube bending yet, Only the largest manufacturers can afford the equipment. Sometimes the tubing may not be available and they have to buy it in 1000 ft. lots to get a decent price and the budget of a small company may not allow that.

Also many time the prototype is built by hand and the welding fixtures are built at that time. Late on they may not be available or the next welder employee does not know what the fixture was for if it was not marked.

It is a complex set of circumstances.

 

Even if you didn't have the info in a computer for cad-Cam, and I would guess not for a bike this old, wouldn't/couldn't you still have the specs on paper or whatever?

Tubing not availible? Meaning like the tubing size? or metal content? For size, has it really changed that much in 20 years? Even if it has, so you wouldn't sell a system for say an '86 VF500 every day, maybe once a year, so I get that part. But I would think you sell one of those today, and then in two weeks you sell a system for an 85 Kawi or whatever that would be of the same generation and then use a similar size no?
If it is metal content, why not just use the "new" metal, presumably it is better at something and it sure beats not offering anything, no? What I mean is say Acme offered a system for the 86VF500F back in the 90's and it was made in TDYX34 steel, which happens to no longer be used or availible, now everyone is using TEWX99 stainless or whatever, why couldn't the company just use the current steel/aluminum/etc.? If they are using it currently for their product line, it must be safe to use on exhausts, right?

As for the fixtures, how big are they? is it something you would put on a shelf like a book? and you could go get it off the shelf when you needed it?

not trying to be an ass, I really wonder. Obviously you are right, since they don't do it, and I just have always wondered why.

 

The tubing is the same. IT is just that large quantities need to be purchased to be profitable.

Some companies are more organized than others.
Buainessmen do not think like motorcycle riders and creative people.

They think about what would sell and what is popular. They mostly think in the short term. Not the long term.

I have had jobs for many years helping a business get more organized.
Making fixtures that are exact and can reproduce with very even results.
When a manufacturer can send products around the world and the product fits properly is very important.

Business people think about the big picture and creative people that do the TIG welding think about the details of the fixtures, making them so that other welders will be able to understand them when that employee leaves the company

Sometimes an employee leaves a company because of low pay or bad conditions and does not care about what happens later on if the company does not care about the employee.

Like I said it gets complicated and it is like a band in music.
All of the people in the group need to be able to work together and attend to all of the details small and large,business things and creative and engineering details.

Not all companies have a group of people working together.

I hate the word "TEAM" especially when it comes to creative things.
It is not an atheletic event. Meaning you cannot rush some things too much.

Obviously if YOU were in charge of the company YOU do care about taking care of the welding fixtures and record keeping. Some people are disorganized and do not think about it until it is too late.

The Jaguar car company is a good example of a company that did not keep good records and had a lot of problems as a result.
Ford now owns half of Jaguar. But the Brits retaliated by buying 1/2 of American Airlines.

 

Hi guys, I've been a lurker here every once in a great while.... hello again! This thread has been dead since 2011, so why not wake it up!?
I was reading this old thread about exhaust systems on the droner V-4's... I have a few of them and am interested in an alternate exhaust system as well.

In particular, I have a really nice 1986 VF1000R that I wouldn't mind trying something on. A 4 into 4 would be the easiest way to go, but would lose all paired cylinder scavenging (except for a reverse-cone muffler scavenging) and the mufflers would need to be something easthetically pleasing.

I love the black individual pipes on the old MV Agusta 4 cylinder racers, and also the Honda CR750 roadracer... so, a quick 'n dirty PhotoShop, and here's what I came up with. Looks kind of 'factory-racer' like for a 29 year old bike, and I bet it would sound pretty cool at 11,000 rpm with four separate 'speakers' firing in 'surround-sound'... whattya think??



Cheers,
BLIGHT

 

Long tube primaries are designed top enhance low end torque, while short tube primaries are for top end HP. About the best explanation I have heard is that the Desmosedici headers are UNequal lenght, equal volume tubes to accomodate bike needs.

If it was me, I would do a header kit (bits and pieces) and spot it together myself. There are 2 header makers here in Dallas, M4 and ???, and neither owns a dyno. its fab to fit the heads and bike.

Larry
Tinkerer

 

Actually, I was recently able to find a USA source for hand-formed, Tsukigi curved 4 pipe universal-fit megaphones with baffles....

I'll make some big tube headers to run to each individual pipe... get rid of the heavy collector box.

All this talk about exhaust theory is kind of silly... the point is to get the gas away from the cylinder with the least amount of back pressure.

Each of these cylinders is a 250cc 4-valve motor, running at 11.1 to 1 compression with a 36mm carb... with a peak rpm of 11,000 rpm...

It should easily make 30+ hp per cylinder. That's 120+ hp total without any exhaust pipe pairing for scavenging.

Here's a Photoshop of what the individual pipes would look like on my 1986 VF1000R (schweet!!!):

I bet it would sound friggin' marvelous!!!!

 

Interesting to see photos of the HRC 1st gens, my Vance & Hines pipes are the same, front 2 and rear 2:

Just had them ceramic coated, they made installation easy by having rear pipes slip onto short stock pipes.

 

Sorry to hijack this old post but......... It has to do with exhaust for the vf series bikes, at least the 1000’s. So if you’ve been tirelessly searching for and exhaust for these old girls like I have then you know they pretty much don’t exist. Well I stumbled upon a website located in the Netherlands Called BoonstraMotoren.nl and they have in stock a collector for the vf1000. And after unboxing it I must say I’m pretty impressed with my purchase. I’ll upload pictures so all of you can look at it. It reminds me of the old JAMA collector pretty much the same. It came out to be about $108 USD and in my opinion well worth it.

 

Excellent! I just ordered one to see if I can make it fit...I ran into a road-block trying to fit the 4 curved megaphones... I'll use 'em on another project.
They are open megaphones so some internal muffler needs to be fit so it doesn't break windows in the neighborhood.... or my ear-drums.
Thanks for the tip!
BLIGHT

 

Oooo I'm here to revive this thread. As this is something I can into, yet they are in the Netherlands which has me going what's the hassle, and are they available considering this is 5+ years ago. Still, if not, I'll make one

 

Hello guys, I bought an aftermarket 4 into 2 stainless collector several years ago for my VF1000R to replace the old lumpy rusty collector box under the engine. I can't remember who made it but sure it came from NL... the quality was top notch, and it fit very well. Pretty sure it is nickel-plated carbon steel, not shiny stainless. here is a pic of it: Not sure about the pulse-scavenging ability with this design, but I figure it has to be better flowing than the original VF collector box, if you've ever seen a pic of the internal piping on those.... pretty weird arrangement. Plus this lightweight collector dropped several pounds from the porky VF1000R.

 

Yep, that's the name 'Boonstra', and I thought it was a real bargain price!

 

Looks loike I responded to my original post... what a dork!
BLIGHT

 

That's ok, glad you saw it and replied Now the question is, what do you feel is the chance they are still available? if then how to go about getting one LOL, I haven't the skill to speak Dutch. and, do you still have the VF-R and have this hooked up? is there a photo of this installed?

 

Hello, no pic of it installed, because you really can't see much of it being under the engine, and lower fairings. Not unless I grovel on the cold concrete floor and snap a pic, but then, why? Here's a pic of my bike though with it installed: Those are period F2 slipon cans with the cone section painted flat black.

 

SWEAT! I see I've got a lot to do to catch you