5th gen clutch

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by Rio800, Sep 29, 2019.

  1. Rio800

    Rio800 New Member

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    Just getting used to my newly acquired 98, which has 29k miles and is pretty much mint.
    I'm feeling the clutch to be a bit heavy so I've ordered the bits to refurb the master slave etc and change the fluid. It's not a problem just a refinement I was after.
    Then I read this synopsis of the 2000 MY changes...
    http://www.simonevans.co.uk/v-four/vfr800.htm

    It mentions a lighter more progressive clutch. Does anyone know what the changes were specifically and whether I could upgrade my 98?
    Cheers...
     
  2. VFRIRL

    VFRIRL New Member

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    I doubt there is much noticeable difference in the clutch I've had a 01 and a 99 now,I notice no difference but others may know more,



    (it seems that Honda did their usual trick of quietly improving their already excellent bikes, instead of making radical changes which can easily ruin a bike's character.)
    when they went to the 6th gen vtec the made rubbish of the last line in this paragraph in my opinion.
     
  3. Cr500

    Cr500 New Member

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    Inner hub/ steel plate thickness, and qty of frictions/ steels changed in 2000. springs also.
    Springs would be your only change noticed at lever.

    You could always install a larger slave cylinder to help with leverage.
     
  4. Rio800

    Rio800 New Member

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    Thanks for the responses guys, I'm going to refurb the master and slave plus new fluid so at least she'll be as nature intended whenbim done
     
  5. jeremyr62

    jeremyr62 New Member

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    I found the clutch on my (new to me in June this year) 98 FiW heavy too. So much so that on the long ride home after buying it I got really bad tendonitis in my elbow. Kind of put me off it a bit it was so bad. However I cleaned up the slave cylinder and there was some jellied gunk from where some fluid had leaked. The bike had been in storage a long time. I also borrowed a force gauge from work to measure the force required to pull the clutch compared to my other bikes and it was in the same ball park (45-50N). Not sure if anything I have done has changed anything yet as I have not done another long journey on it. I did put a pair of cheap Chinese adjustable levers on it which does make it feel better. If it still gives me issues I will a) sell it or b) fit a quickshifter.
     
  6. jfrahm

    jfrahm New Member

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    Did you clean up the rod also? Probably would not help.

    A more modern clutch material and lighter springs should lighten the clutch. Maybe we can test the stock 00-01 springs to see if they are lighter.
    My 2000 clutch is not heavy, at least that I have noticed.
     
  7. jeremyr62

    jeremyr62 New Member

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    I did pull the rod out and it was spotless. It was also very dry which I expect is normal but I lubed it up with engine oil anyway
    The combination of new levers, greasing the lever pivots and removing the jellied clutch fluid from the slave might have made it more tolerable. We will see.
    I actually really like the idea of a quickshifter as well, but AFAIK they only do upshifts?
     
  8. Rio800

    Rio800 New Member

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    The stiffness is due to the effort needed to actuate the clutch I'm assuming. That would suggest the friction material, plates, oil properties would only affect the action of the clutch not actuating it?
    So any component that imparts resistance in their movement could be improved or fixed to reduce effort. I assume this would include pistons, springs, joints. I would guess also that poor fluid would require more effort to get the desired pressure and old rubber pipes with some give. After that you'd have to improve the spec overbthe original like a bigger slave as suggested.
    I'm no mechanic so thats why I was wondering what improvements honda made when they mentioned it in their press release about the 2000 model
     
  9. jeremyr62

    jeremyr62 New Member

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    The biggest resistance to the lever action will be the clutch springs. If you don't mind the clutch slipping at high speeds you could put a few washers under the springs to ease the force required to pull the lever. I think dirt bike riders do that. I wont be doing it.
     
  10. GreginDenver

    GreginDenver New Member

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    There's a pretty good chance that a prior owner of your '98 VFR put in stiffer clutch springs when he replaced the clutch plates, it's a very common thing and doing this results in a stiffer clutch lever.

    It's hard to tell if your bike has OEM or aftermarket springs installed in the clutch just by looking at the springs. You could experiment by installing a "known" set of OEM Honda clutch springs to see if it improves the feel.
     
  11. jeremyr62

    jeremyr62 New Member

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    In my case that is extremely unlikely. The bike only had 1,700 miles on it when I bought in June. Anyway having physio on the elbow now so hopefully I can manage it.
     
  12. jfrahm

    jfrahm New Member

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    "If you don't mind the clutch slipping at high speeds you could put a few washers under the springs to ease the force required to pull the lever"
    This sounds backwards to me. Preloading the springs would make them stiffer and the clutch harder to pull apart (de-clutch).
     
    squirrelman likes this.
  13. Rio800

    Rio800 New Member

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    Yeah you're probably right I've seen vids of people changing their clutches proudly pointing out how stiff their new springs are and their old ones are softer so need changing. But they dont.
     
  14. jeremyr62

    jeremyr62 New Member

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    Poor choice of words on my part. Spacers under the fasteners to reduce the compression of the springs.

     
  15. Rio800

    Rio800 New Member

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    Ah I'm with you! Respects
     
  16. jfrahm

    jfrahm New Member

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    Reducing clutch spring preload sounds like a great thing to try. If it slips you can go with a grabbier compound or source a complete 2000-2001 clutch.
     
  17. Rio800

    Rio800 New Member

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    Here's what the Haynes manual says about the clutch on the 2000MY...
    Anti judder springs were no longer fitted in the clutch, and the clutch plates and clutch master cylinder were modified.
     
  18. Wiggo

    Wiggo New Member

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    Hmmm, well that sort of saves me starting a new thread. My 2000 bike suffers from a lot of juddering and snatching in the clutch if I have the revs too high. In other words, if I gently start to slip the clutch at 1500-2000 rpm, and smoothly feed in power as I let it out, all is fine. If I need a quicker getaway and try to have the engine running at 3-4000 rpm and slip the clutch, it doesn't matter how gentle or careful I am, it snatches and judders.

    Pretty sure I read that was a symptom of a worn clutch, but can anyone confirm? 60k miles and probably no real maintenance apart from oil changes by previous owners, so wondering if a clutch rebuild might be a suitable winter job.
     
  19. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Member

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    When my 2001 was doing this, and sometimes violently grabbing, a plate and spring replacement fixed it.
    That was at 60,000km, it now has 135,000km without an issue.
     
  20. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    My 99 with 95000km was getting a bit grabby/lurchy on take-off, made it hard to smoothly modulate the clutch. I replaced the fibre discs(the old ones looked a little scorched to the eye) and put in some slightly stiffer EBC springs; not sure if the latter were needed, but the clutch afterwards was great, a wider engagement zone and much smoother to use.
     
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