My first carb cleaning odyssey.... Lots O' Pics! Questions!

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by The_Hamster, May 19, 2012.

  1. The_Hamster

    The_Hamster New Member

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    So after pulling my bike out of storage this winter, it would start and run, but not idle with the choke off. I never have thought it had 113 horsepower (1984 VF1000F), so I figured I may as well get the carbs cleaned. Thought I would give it a quick and low-tech try myself before sending them away to get properly done if (when?) this fails miserably.

    So here we go...

    I removed the carbs and rear valve cover to take a look at the cams, and adjust the valves while things are apart. Here is the Interceptor with my Suzuki GS and my 4-wheeled toy.

    [​IMG]

    Here is my work area for the carbs, with the first cap/diaphram/spring removed and the bowl for that carb.

    [​IMG]

    One of the boots broke apart when removing the carbs. I ordered four new boots at the dealer today ($50!)

    [​IMG]

    Closeup of the carbs

    [​IMG]

    Here are the jets for the first carb. From here on I am in new territory for me, so please point out anything wacky looking.

    [​IMG]

    All I have for carb cleaner are a couple of spray cans, as such.

    [​IMG]

    I removed the pilot jet and looked through it. There was a tiny sliver of light coming through so I shot it with carb cleaner and compressed air (~50psi). Here is a shot looking through it AFTER cleaning it. Look reasonable?

    [​IMG]

    Here is the side of the pilot jet, nothing interesting here I think. Could see through the small holes.

    [​IMG]

    The main jet was very clogged up before cleaning, since it had about the light the pilot does in the above pic before cleaning it out, after it looks like this....

    [​IMG]

    Side of main jet
    [​IMG]

    Here is looking into where those two jets were. Should I be shooting carb cleaner in there and/or compressed air? It will be a couple of weeks before I am able to get my new boots and reassemble this thing, possibly as much as 3-4 weeks. That last brass orifice, what is that? It has no screwdriver slot, should I be spraying it out and if so where should it be emerging?

    [​IMG]

    Here is the engine side of the throttle butterfly. Should that orifice at the top there get shot with cleaner/air?

    [​IMG]

    Here is where the diaphrama and slide were. Should those orifices be cleaned?

    [​IMG]

    Here is the airbox side of the carb. What should I be cleaning here?

    [​IMG]

    And finally the float bowl. Turned yellow after the gas evaporated.

    [​IMG]

    Any opinions/pointers are appreciated. TIA!
     
  2. dutchwurx

    dutchwurx New Member

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    float needles?? what are you doing about them?? they cause lots of problems..float height?? did you set it??
     
  3. Pops

    Pops New Member

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    First of all, congrats for having a clean dedicated work area! You're on the right track so far, and the answer to all of your questions is YES. Here's what I did last time I cleaned carbs. I located a tupperware basin large enough to immerse the entire carb assembly/manifold in. I filled it with a 50/50 mix of hot water and simple green and dunked the whole assembly in it to soak for 3 days. Any similar cleaner/degreaser concentrate will work. First remove all the jets, floats, needles/seats, diaphrams as it appears you've already done. After the soaking spray carb cleaner and air thru every orifice - you'll see where it comes out! If you detect a clog, run a strand of fine copper wire thru the orifice until you can spray cleaner thru it. I'm sure you already know this, but don't seperate the carbs from the manifold - you risk breaking the fragile plastic tubes that run between the carbs, and losing the springs between all the linkages.
    It's not rocket science - it just takes patience and attention to detail.
    This thread was my guiding light when I did mine, compliments of TOE CUTTER - http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/22449-cleaning-carbs.html
     
  4. The_Hamster

    The_Hamster New Member

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    Thanks for the comments. No I havne't removed the floats yet, I called it a night after playing around with that one carb for about half an hour, to go spend some time with the wife. I intend on removing the float and such.

    Never heard of dunking in simple green, sounds cheaper than carb cleaner? 3 days is awhile, I'll give it a try if nobody else feels otherwise.

    Keep the info coming, thanks guys!
     
  5. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Just seeing a bit of light is not sufficient.

    Holes in jets can appear clean and open but have a built-up of encrusted, invisible gunk around the edges. As Mr. Pops suggtests, you need to poke EVERY hole you see with wire, and i always use steel cuz copper is too wimpy, and i'm not over-cautious about hole enlargement. Seems like wire diameter of.012" works best.

    You need the stiffness of steel wire to clean most holes, especially the choke circuit pickup tube, where copper would never work.
    IMG_1265.jpg IMG_1088.jpg

    Not absolutely necessary except in cases or super-gummedup carbs, it's best to use high-pressure compressed air to blow through passages and jets.
     
  6. The_Hamster

    The_Hamster New Member

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    Which holes are the choke pickup that you speak of?

    Did you really soak for three days? Most places I found while googling mentioned simple green being caustic to aluminum, and thus people were only dunking in it for 10-30 minutes?
     
  7. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    The longest, non-removable brass tube should be flowing fuel up to the enrichment plungers, but most are usually partially or totally CWC, that is, Clogged With Crud.

    Try your compressed -air- in -a -can and carb spray all you want, you won't know it's really clear until you can deftly probe your .012 steel wire in to a total depth of about 33mm.

    The wire needs to work through the very common initial obstruction in the tubes at about 20mm depth, the exact level where fuel usually sits and dries up
    hundreds of times over years and years, summer after summer ! Use high- pressure air to clean passages after. Test for flow by blowing air into an plastic tube over it.

    Best fuel enrichment ("choke") and best starting won't happen if the tubes are blocked.

    Your float bowls look fairly clean. Probably means a clean, rust-free petrol tank and relatively clean fuel filter.

    Every time you find a brass fitting, try using the wire probe to check for blockages.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  8. Pops

    Pops New Member

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    I've done a couple sets of carbs with no challenges, soaked 'em both for 3 days. I learned about it a couple of years ago from the guys on the Yamaha Triples website (I had an XS 750 Special at the time). Quite a few of them had used the technique with great success.
     
  9. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Nobody could say soaking hurts the carbs (except for the lube in the throttle shafts) but it's almost NEVER really necessary to clean the carbs so they run right.
     
  10. The_Hamster

    The_Hamster New Member

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    Puttered around for another half hour or so today after I finished adjusting the valves. I pulled out the float on the one carb I have opened up and pulled out the seat/filter.

    Here it is as it came out, clean as a whistle, no?
    [​IMG]

    The seat
    [​IMG]

    Pilot screw
    [​IMG]

    Pilot screw hole
    [​IMG]

    I was able to push a peice of .009" copper into the 'choke' pickup tube and spin it around without any issue. Couldnt' find any .012" but I will keep my eyes out.
     
  11. The_Hamster

    The_Hamster New Member

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    Where do I measure the float from? There is the edge of the float, where my caliper can reach easily, and the main area of the float. Do I measure from that protruding edge, or the main flat area of the float to get my 7.5mm? See picture....

    float.jpg
     
  12. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Squirrel to Hamster: "That's a good question, possibly never asked before." Rodents can be very curious.

    However, on long snowy lonely winter nights SM rolls cunundrums like this around while sleeping........and has henceforth decided long ago to use the main float body and not the high edge for measurements. The pic of my float setting tool shows cutouts for the ridges. IMG_0205 xx.jpg gallery_3647_3444_152458.jpg

    In practice, it probably amounts to less than a 1mm difference in measurements, well within normal float setting range + and -.

    In other words, i don't think there would be any noticable difference on the bike at speed using either way to measure.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  13. The_Hamster

    The_Hamster New Member

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    What is the +/- for the float setting? 7.5mm +/-?
     
  14. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Is it not scripted in the ancient legends of The Bible that +/- = 1mm ??? Innit ?

    Exact float setting and jetting can vary 1mm up or down for best tuning results if you're on a dyno.
     
  15. The_Hamster

    The_Hamster New Member

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    I seem to of been successful. I buckled down today and go to it. The pilot jets were quite clogged, I thought they were clean but I ran a peice of .012 wire through at my fellow rodents suggestion above and found out they weren't. So I scrubbed them all out good with .012 copper. Stuffed wire into all the holes I could find, all the way through till they poked out somewhere else in some cases. Then soaked the jets in carb cleaner for a few hours, cleaned the bowls, slides, throttle bodies, slide bores. Put it back together and set the float height, installed new insulator boots and it fired up in about 4-5 seconds of cranking. Haven't balanced the carbs yet but I did take it for a ride. Idles cleanly at 1000 rpm now (no idle at all without the choke previously). Not much change in overall power but that's ok I think.

    Thanks for the help!
     
  16. The_Hamster

    The_Hamster New Member

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    So I rode this thing in heavy traffic today, and found that it hesitates when the engine gets quite hot idling all that time. Basically just sucks air if you open the throttle quickly, no surge in power just remains the same as previous thrttoe position, but it does catch up and put on the power after about 3/4 of a second of hestitation. Once traffic was flowing again it cooled down some and behaved normally again.

    What should I be looking at here?
     
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