Help! fed up with Honda Maintenance

Dear VFR riders,

I am living in Jordan and I am one of 2 lonely owners of the great VFR800! The other one is now 1/2 a VFR as it went into a really bad accident, Thankfully no one was permanently injured just scratches and bruises.

So I have a problem with my VFR where electrical current burns up a fuse that connects from the battery to the rectifier and somehow is responsible for cutting the power off the fuel pump only... anyway I have been in deep sh** for 2 years paying for a battery, rectifier, stator and ofcourse maintenance and labor fees, all to start the electric problem all over again starting now with the fuse being fried to ashes 10 days ago. It's a 2 and a half year problem still existing.

I am fed up with the dealer here so I want your help to tell me where VFRs are used most so I can send it to a dealer who had experience with VFRs. I am a resident of Jordan (Middle East) and I am hoping Boston would be an option since I know people there to help me with that. Ofcourse if any one knows some one closer like in Israel, Turkey, UAE it might be cheaper to ship.


I should be selling that bike but I really love that b**ch

 

Before allowing any shop to work on your bike make them show you their copy of the factory service manual, just to be sure they have the info they need.

Have you gone through the wiring harness inspecting connections for signs of distress?? There was a recall for wiring on certain years VFR 800s.

Your dealer frustration and needless expense is the main reason most here buy the service manual and tools and learn to fix things ourselves.

 

Hi

Firstly it looks like a while back you snuck onto the forum without being noticed by our official greeters! So even though it sounds like you are having a few issues at the moment I would like to say welcome :welcome:and hopefully offer some advice on the electrical gremlins.

I see that in an earlier post, you refer to your bike as a 2008 vtec ABS - is that correct? If so can you update your profile to include the model information so we all know what bike we are trying to help with. Also when you get a chance please post up some photos of this lonely VFR!

Otherwise I am sure it won't be long before someone posts ...



Moving swiftly on - I take it you are unhappy with whatever mechanics are available locally. OK Honda's V4 are pretty special, but I suspect reputable motorcycle dealers for other major makes like - Yamaha, Suzuki etc may be willing to assist with what sounds like an electrical issue, especially as the basics underlying motorcycle electrical systems are pretty common. If the people working for your Honda dealer are hopeless then I would be tempted to track down any local biker meeting place and ask around if they know anyone who is good at motorcycle electrics. Chances are that if you hear good things about the same person from several riders then they would be a better first step than shipping the bike overseas.

Certainly planning to ship a bike for repair to the USA is pretty drastic. I am pretty sure that Honda sold VFR's in many EU countries - with loads in the UK, France and Italy where you will have little difficulty finding a decent dealer to sort out the problem(s).

If you are happy to have a go at DIY, or have a willing friend, then its well worth doing some basic tests with a multi-meter before deciding its beyond you to resolve. Certainly the blown fuse from the RR to battery is a fairly well know issue with vtec's and some methodical testing should home in on what is wrong.

So to the basics. On a motorbike the charging system comprises 4 components all of which depend on the others and a fault in one can cause damage in one or more of the others. Its important to ensure that all 4 components - loom, RR (Regulator Rectifier), Stator (AKA Alternator/Generator) and Battery are in good health.

From your description I would suspect the RR and/or stator is faulty. Both are prone to faults - especially during extended use in extreme heat - I killed my stator on a 7 hour ride in 30+ heat, and I bet temperatures in Jordan can be hotter.

When the RR fails it can start feeding 60+ volts into circuits designed for 12-15 with understandable results. If the RR is found to be faulty, and bearing in the heat issue I would suggest you consider uprating from the Honda part and fitting a Shindengen Mosfet regulator instead such as - Shindengen FH020AA Mosfet Regulator/Rectifier

The stator is another regular electrical gremlin - especially in very hot climates - To be honest the stock one should be OK but if the oil seal is on its way out and its being coated in red hot engine oil it can end up really fried! If the volts test show its failed again, pull the cover and look for signs of /smell of fried windings. If there is more than an egg cup of oil lurking in the housing then you probably need to fit a new oil seal to prevent a repeat failure.

Rather than repeat stuff which has been covered loads of times before - I suggest you start by reading and then following all the steps outlined in the Drill :

http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gene...how-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.html


NB - It is clear that 6th Gen models have similar problems, and the tests are basically the same although parts have different locations. If you need to, go to the forum downloads section where you can get a copy of the vtec manual which will show you where the components are on your bike.- http://vfrworld.com/forums/specifications/3161-downloadable-parts-catalogs-service-manuals.html


Note - If you do find one component is suspect - don't assume its the only problem. Remember a fault in one charging system component can quickly cause problems with all or any of the others. So check all four bits. Also the stator check should be done TWICE with the yellow lead to the RR disconnected. The battery should allow the bike to run fine with the lead disconnected. First time you check the AC output at idle and 4,000 RPM when the bike is cold. Then hook the connector up and take it for a half hour run so the engine is good and warm, then disconnect and repeat the tests again. Some work fine when cold but the windings start to break down when they warm up and can rapidly drain a battery.

Hope that makes sense and will hopefully allow you to identify what is wrong and get the bike running again even if your dealer can't!

If you need to source OEM parts, then there is a UK firm called David Silver Spares who supply genuine Honda parts at very reasonable prices.

Take care and let us know how you get on.



SkiMad

 

Thanx for the quick replies guys my Bike is the VFR800 2008 model with NO ABS. Maybe it was a mistake in a previous post.

I actually caused a huge fight at the dealer's between the owner and the mechanics/Electricians, and if they don't fix the bike or find the problem in a couple of days some one will be fired according to the owner (bull****)

I was the one supplying them with the solutions and ways to diagnose problems and solve them (Thanx to your amazing posts) and I also provided them with the Service Manual I bought online.

Regarding the recall, first: we are in a country where international corporations don't do recalls or give a rat's ***, except maybe German and Turkish companies. Second: Today and after 2 years the first e-mail to Honda Japan was sent regarding my issue, I'm not optimistic but keeping my fingers crossed

 

Skimad Thanx for the warm greeting and informative and quick reply

I tried to upload a PDF file that has a full description of the issue with photos but it was 184 KB which is not allowed I guess I will just copy the text and try to upload the photos in the Document plus others.... Here goes:

I am having a problem with VFR800 2008 without ABS model I bought 2 and a half years ago. (Pictures here are of the current state and were taken during writing of this document).

First 6 months it was the battery going dead, then the small fuse next to the battery (not the big block behind the battery) melting (not blown), so Honda service center changed both fuse and battery only to have the Stator fried after a couple of months (dashboard and lights dead, and 30 seconds after that the bike stalls). Changed stator to aftermarket one, fried in 3 days!

So I ordered a new OEM Stator and Rectifier (Cost me more than $700), took 2 months for the Dealer to get, installed on the 23rd of February 2013, a week ago I had the same small fuse totally fried and when we checked the stator upon my nagging we found lots of discoloration on 3/4ths of it. The Stator shown has been installed for about 5 months only.

Service Center couldn't understand what the problem is so they changed the fuse again just like they did the first time, and asked me to keep checking it all the time so they kept it hanging outside the bike. By the way the big 30A fuse block has a little melt on the cover of connector (the red connector shown in the picture above) and one of the wires (it was brown) is also discolored a little and smelled like burning after a ride a couple of days ago..
The fuse is outside above the passenger's footpeg
My harnesses are the OEM ones that came with the bike, no replacements were made at the dealer's or anywhere else except for the fuses that were melted and what was mentioned earlier and done by Honda. I found a fix talking about a similar problem at this website (http://www.vfrdiscus...und-fix-how-to/ ) and I just checked the blue connector and it has both green wires on male and female side of the connector so I have the old front harness that was recalled on some models of the VFR800, but apparently not mine (according to Jordan's Dealer).

One more little thing, the fuse shown on the outside has a small current even when the bike is switched off, it goes from the +positive of the battery to the rectifier plug and when I turn on the bike it seems that it goes to the fuel pump as it turns it on and off when I plug and unplug the fuse.

The dealer is promising to warranty the rectifier and stator on the condition that I don't let anyone including myself modify anything, so I can't DIY now until they totally fail to pinpoint the cause.

 

Thanks for the updates and the pictures - which suggest this is actually a USA sourced VFR - as European market models did not carry the interceptor logo.

If you need to check what recalls applied to your bike then I guess the quick solution would be to PM some of the folks in the states (try scubalong - our official greeter). If you provide the VIN he may be able to get a dealer to check. Certainly it seems odd that your bike has an older front end loom as those connectors look different (indeed flimsy) compared with the ones fitted on my UK spec 2007. Hopefully the Honda dealer will be able to get and fit the replacement loom. Sadly some dealers simply leave the old loom in place when they add the new loom, which may save time but in very hot climates may increase the risk of melted wiring as any airflow cooling passing inside the fairing will be further restricted.

I guess for now you will want to give the Honda dealer a chance to resolve the issue. Also if parts are needed, then I fear it will inevitably take time before they can resolve the problem.

The crux of the matter is that over many years, manufacturers of motorcycle wiring have tended to cut costs (and increase profits) by using progressively thinner gauge wiring and lower quality connectors and components. Inevitably there comes a point where they go too far. Sadly problems tend to come to light first in those countries where bikes are exposed to extreme high temperatures for long periods.

If you are going to be paying for replacement parts then I would push them to do the minor modifications necessary to install the Shindengen Mosfet regulator - which runs a lot cooler and delivers more stable and clean DC volts than the OEM RR, which means it and other electrical components should last a lot longer in your rather challenging temperatures.

As for the stator, your picture does show some discolouring but it may still be serviceable. So get them to do the hot/cold AC checks as described above before binning it. Also if the windings have failed, most competent electrical motor rewinding firms should be able to do a rewind for a fraction of the cost of a new item especially if you have to add in international postage. Don't forget to ask how much oil was in the Stator cover housing. If it was more than an egg cup you probably need to get that oil seal renewed or the new stator may not last very long.

Finally, looking to the future, you may want to search on here for the numerous threads looking at ways to make these bikes run cooler. There are quite a few quite ingenious ideas such as adding extra electrical fans to draw air through the radiator which does not have a fan fitted, replacing the standard fan blade with one from a VTR fan, so when it cuts in, the fan augments the natural airflow rather than fighting it. Another solution you may want to consider is Tinks mod of fitting a larger oil cooler, although at least the 6th gen models did get a larger stock cooler. Hopefully it will all sort itself out and you will be able to enjoy your VFR as it is meant to be.

:vtr2:

Take care


SkiMad

 

I got my bike last night, they told me the fuse is no longer heating up and they changed a major wire but kept hiding details from me that I was asking about like which wire? did you check voltage of...? and assured me that the bike is perfectly fixed this time. I am definite they are liars cause they didn't believe there was a problem before... I hope I am wrong!

The bike now is working well just like it was working well seconds before the fuse was fried. but am keeping an eye on all electrical fuses and wires from now on and might try to do the tests mentioned in the Service Manual and see what I can do with cooling down the bike with extra fans or air intake pipes or deflectors when I have time.

I will try to contact "scubalong" and see if he can help with the recall info...
Bikes are a new thing here in Jordan so professionals in this field are scarce if not absent in Jordan especially in the electrical area.

Again thank you very much for your help and valuable information, I really appreciate it

 

I got your message and doing some research. FYI there is no recall for VFR 2006 to 2009 model.
I will get back to you after some call to the dealer. Thanks for the up date, hope those bastard get your bike back on the road with no further issue.

 

Hey Every one, Just a quick update, The fuse that kept burning up is starting to melt again and my seat is heating up when I get caught in traffic, engine temperature does not go any higher than 224 F and goes down immediately to at least 211 F. The problem symptoms still exist, it's just a matter of time till I find another smoked fuse and Stator

 

The rectifier change was mentioned in paragraph 5 of my post with the pictures #5, it is not always warm weather here usually in summer it is between 25 and 33, at night it never goes more than 29 centigrade. Voltage it perfectly fine and I have a 5in1 clock and temperature and voltage meter panel connected after I had the problems the first time so I can keep an eye on the charging system, I also check manually and remove this device in case it affects the readings. I always get something around 14v +/-5v depending on rev almost constant 14.4v at around 3500 rpm, oh and teh rectifier stopped heating at all after last maintenance (they wouldn't tell me what they did that time) :-/

 

iyad202,

I too have melting main fuse holder. I am in the process of troubleshooting, and in the meantime have ordered a new factory battery harness and a VFRness (VFRness goes in tomorrow!). I am curious, you mentioned about the fuse cutting out the fuel pump. What sort of symptoms do you experience when riding the bike, I would guess some sort of surging since you said cut out to the fuel pump?