1984 VF500FII carbies and other stuff

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by Simon74, Jun 15, 2019.

  1. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    Hello.

    After a 15 year (!!!) sleep, my VF is waking up to a little TLC. I'd hoped to avoid doing the carbs (although refurbing them doesn't faze me at all, the mere idea of pulling them and putting them back on gave me the fear), but the foul-smelling mixture of 15 year old petrol and oil that pished out from the alternator cover and all over my garage floor when I did the tappets a couple of days back meant a carb teardown is inevitable. At least one float stuck, was my guess.

    Pulled the carbs this morning, 2 hours of "gentle" cajoling with heat and leverage got them off without incident and, above all, without destroying the boots (which are now marinating gently in a mixture of 7 secret herbs and spices alcohol and wintergreen)

    This afternoon has been tear down and clean up - turns out I had one needle valve stuck, and 3 of the 4 floats were gummed up solid. Not pretty. All the slow jets are clogged, the rest cleans up pretty much OK. Haven't made it to the idle screws yet, because I'm stuck on something which I'm sure is stupid...

    I can't for the life of me figure out how to pull the float on carb #3 without removing the throttle linkage, which blocks the float pivot. And removing the throttle linkage seems to require splitting the carbs, something I was kinda hoping to avoid. Any special techniques?

    While I'm at it, given that carb cleaner is reckoned to be bad for plastics, petrol for cleaning the float bodies? I'm a bit wary of acetone.

    Cheers
     
  2. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Insider

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    The linkage arm should have a partial cutout out in it. You have to open the butterflies and the cut out should line up and allow the pin to come out.

    As long as your not submersing and soaking the carbs, the harder plastics can withstand harsher chemicals for short periods. Of course keep those diaphragms away from everything.

    You should really considering replacing the fuel cross over tube o-rings. I guarantee they are toast. It does require partial carb separation tho. Sometimes you just have to loosen the enrichment linkage, but not the throttle linkage.

    Good luck!
     
  3. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    Odd, didn't see a cutout of any sort. I did open the butterflies to see if there was a "clear place", it seemed likely, but didn't see anything. The storm we were being hit with has died down now, I'll run out to the workshop and have another shufty.

    Good call on the o-rings, I should have something suitable lying about in the big-ole-box-o-rings.
     
  4. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Insider

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    Maybe I'm thinking of the 1000. But in any case there is a way to remove without disassembling anything else. That would be very un-Honda like.
     
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  5. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    Yeah, in fact you're right. There's a tiny little cutout, you need to be looking at the carbs from juuuuuuuuust the right angle to see it. Thanks for the hint, all floats, jets, and seats removed and cleaned. Yay!
     
  6. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    While the carbs are soaking, I've been doing a little reconstructive surgery on the plastics. Acetone + ABS for the win. Also made up some little captive nuts for the screen on the lathe, they need a bit more work but they're better than the camel abortion that was there before. Not sure if I can save any of the stickers, the V-Four, front Honda, and side panel stickers are in very good condition.

    IMG_0539.jpg
     
  7. squirrelman#1

    squirrelman#1 New Member

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    it's seldom necessary or desirable to soak carbs as moisture getting into the throttle shafts may cause seizure in the future. instead, just clean or replace jets + carb spray through passages followed by compressed air.
     
  8. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    So, Carbs are fully cleaned, back together, and bench tested. I was afraid for the float needles, but in the end they hold pressure fine. The carbs have been apart before, the idle screw caps were already drilled out, and I discovered that #1 idle screw was missing its washer, meaning the spring was bearing directly on the o-ring, which was looking very sad. No problem, ran one off quickly on the lathe from a bit of 5mm stainless rod and it's back how it should be. Replaced all the idle screw and float bowl o-rings with viton equivalents, tweaked the #4 float which was quite a lot too high.

    Just waiting for the remaining inlet pipes to soften - I only had a jar big enough for two pipes to bathe in wintergreen + alcohol, and I forgot to swap them over when we got back from holiday, so I now have 2 pipes that are as good as new and two that might as well be made from reinforced concrete.

    While I'm waiting, water pump and oil pump clean and check, petcock mod, make a new gasket for the timing cover. Then it all goes back together, fluids go in, new battery, and we see if she'll fire up.

    Thanks for the help and suggestions, I'm sure I'll be back for more :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  9. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    Also, I have a cunning plan for the mouldering remains of the XT550. But that's off topic for here.
     
  10. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    Carbs are back in.

    And out again. What eejit put the boot clamps on back to front?

    You do the hokey kokey and you turn around … that's what it's all about!
     
  11. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    Make "vroom" noise here
     
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  12. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    OK, she's alive. I was having fuel starvation issues, which were giving me the cold sweats about taking the damned carbs off again, but I had a flash of inspiration last night. What if, when I replaced the main fuel line from the petcock to the carb feeds for each ramp, the bit of straight fuel line I'd used in place of the original "formed" piece was kinking?

    Tentatively lifts the rear of the tank - oohyafookinbastid! Line kinked totally flat, that would explain a lot. Lift the tank up on blocks of wood, a bit of choke, a quick spray of ether to help things along, press the starter button, and ...



    There are still "issues". Firstly, I need to find a way of either forming the aforementioned main fuel feed to the correct shape, stopping it from kinking (stuffing a spring inside the line "springs" to mind as a possible way to go) or to find an original, non-rotted one. Secondly, the battery is dead. Thirdly, tyres. These last two are merely money. And the rest is all cosmetic - re-cover the seat, slight dent to remove from the tank, respray, source decals.

    But she's making the correct VF500 noise.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
  13. squirrelman#1

    squirrelman#1 New Member

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    battery could be dead from a bad charging system so test that.
     
  14. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    I suspect the battery is more dead from 15 years in the garage, uncharged, with temperatures ranging from +30°C to -30°C. It's had the epsom salts treatment, and now charges above 11.8V, but self-discharges down to ~9V within a couple of days.

    The charging system's fine, at least as far as I can test it. Hell, the battery even charges a bit, at least as well as it does when hooked up to a charger.
     
  15. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    New battery arrived today, filled and charged, and she lives autonomously. Starts instantly (that said, it is 30°C at the moment :)

    Just waiting on tyres. C'mon, tyres. Arrive!
     
  16. squirrelman#1

    squirrelman#1 New Member

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    while you're waiting, good idea to remove valve covers to check clearances.
     
  17. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    Yeah, definitely in the plan. I already did them before even trying to turn the motor over, as a part of making sure all the bits that are supposed to move, move, so they should be at least "in the ballpark", and she's running quietly enough, but I was planning on putting 100km or so on the motor to shift any remaining crap, then re-doing valves, fluids and oil filter anyway.

    Carbs could do with a balance, but I don't have a vacuum gauge set, and my mate's set are out on loan somewhere. Might have a shot at doing them by ear, but it's been "a while" since I last did that. 30 years or so, in fact, and it was only on a twin.
     
  18. squirrelman#1

    squirrelman#1 New Member

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    you're doing a great job. are you sure you're french ? the english is too good !
     
  19. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    I'm fairly sure I'm not French, as it happens. I seem to remember being a blimey, living in stinky frogland :)
     
  20. Simon74

    Simon74 New Member

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    Hrm. And in today's "not very good news", I thought to myself "She's running, I'll take her for a quick spin." Being extremely careful on the old and hard rubber, obvs.

    Dig out hemet and jacket, start her up, swing leg over, roll back, point her at the exit to the garage, clutch in, engage first gear …

    Clank. Stall.

    "That's odd", say I. "Could have sworn I pulled the clutch in." Try again.

    Clank. Stall.

    Ooohyabugga. No resistance on the lever, so the clutch plates themselves can't be jammed - if it were jammed, it would have to be jammed "open", which would mean no gears or slippy clutchery, not no clutch at all. Likewise, the slave cylinder can't be stuck, or there would be resistance at the lever. Which means either (a lot of) air in the lines, or a dodgy master cylinder. Pull the lid, look in the master cylinder reservoir. There's fluid, but it looks like a dog shat in it. A sort of diarrhea coloured sludge at the lever end. I'm starting to get a sinking feeling about this.

    Put away helmet and jacket. No riding today.

    Removing the master cylinder, the clutch actuator boot falls away in pieces. The circlip holding the piston in is rusted. Leave the piston in place, clean everything up enough to be able to blow some air through it. Chuck some denatured alcohol in the reservoir, avert eyes to avoid getting a faceful of alcolol and crap, pump the piston a few times. No pumpy pumpy at the exit, no squirty squirty from the reservoir. Odd. If I put my thumb over the exit and actuate the piston, pressure builds up. Looks like the primary cup, at least, is OK. I'm guessing the piston / secondary cup assembly is dead.

    Need to find a set of circlips pliers to verify. Mine are at work.

    Bah.
     
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