1st time rider+starter bike, advice or lessons?

Discussion in 'New Riders' started by hugebigfatrhino, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. Kevin_70

    Kevin_70 New Member

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    I'd spend more time in the saddle of that dirt bike you had your hands on.
     
  2. foxfire1

    foxfire1 New Member

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    I agree--

    take the MSF,

    spend a lot of time on the dirtbike,

    pick up a copy of Proficient Motorcycling,

    and train like your life depended on it--

    cuz it duz!
     
  3. camcclellan

    camcclellan New Member

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    I am using my VFR right now for a learning bike, but I have been doing nothing for the past month other than riding around a large high school parking lot. I probably have not had the motorcycle above 35 or so, and have several people who have rode for years and have taken several of the MSF courses.

    Guess what I am going to be doing until May or June? Riding around the high school parking lot until I get in the class.

    After getting used to the position of the footpegs and other equipment, I started out by pushing the motorcycle down a slight incline and keeping it balanced at a very low speed, about 5-10 mph. Then I practiced clutch creeping it. Then I practiced taking off by just using the clutch, which my VFR will do just fine. Then I kept it in first gear and started praticing turns. Then I got to the point where I was practicing shifting and more turns.

    Then I stopped and was talking to my mother, and I let the damned thing fall over on me. I was able to keep it from hitting hard, and just laid it down gently on the asphalt, so no damage was done, other than some paint scrapes.

    The convenient part is that this parking lot is where the MSF course is taught locally, so I have all of the fake road markings. Now what I am doing is practicing trafic behaviours.

    When I have the time and money I will take the MSF course, but I personally will not go out of that parking lot or my neighborhood with it until I do. As a matter of fact, I have my stepfather drive it out to the parking lot and I follow in my car.

    There is nothing wrong with learning on a VFR if you respect it. If you don't respect it, you will end up being hurt. It really bothers me to have to look at my new toy in the garage every day, but I know that I need to take it slow.

    Another difference that I know that there is between a large VFR and a smaller motorcycle is that the throttle will probably be more sensative. If you have more than twice the horsepower than a lot of 'learner' bikes, then the throttle correspondingly will be a little bit more touchy. 25 percent of 40 horsepower is 10, but 25 percent of 100 horsepower is 25. I played with my mothers HD 883 Sportster in the parking lot the other week, before I got back on the VFR and I could tell a big difference.
     
  4. masonv45

    masonv45 New Member

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    In a parking lot, practice figure 8's and circles and gradually increase your speed without increasing your line. Do this until the bike touches the pavement or your nerve runs out. This will let you know how far you can lean the bike before something touches the ground.

    Most wrecks to new riders occur in a curve. Any idiot can gun the bike in a straight line.

    Why do new riders wreck in a curve?

    They didn't think they could make it at the speed they were going when they entered the curve. Fact is, 95% of the bikes could have made the turn, the rider's skill level couldn't.

    If you go into a curve too fast, DON'T HIT THE FRONT BRAKES! Doing so will cause the bike to sit straight up and go in a straight line.

    Lean it over more without touching either brake and maintain constant throttle. LOOK where you want to go. Trust the tires and that your bike will make the turn - it probably will. If you absolutely have to, FEATHER the rear brake to scrub off some speed.

    Know your's and the bike's limits...by practicing!

    Many new riders have trouble starting the bike from a stop facing uphill. Use the rear brake just enough to keep the bike from moving backwards and start feathering out the clutch while giving it gas. When you feel the bike pull, gently let off the brake.
     
  5. Alaskan

    Alaskan Member

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    In addition to the great advice you already rec'd, I recommend you study "Proficient Motorcycling" by Hough. Lots of great tips on cornering, body weight transfer, road hazards, traffic and the like. I still like to read it and I have been riding for a pretty long time.
     
  6. rngdng

    rngdng New Member

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    This thread bothers me in several ways. The first statement, "my roommate and I bought"....has disaster written all over it. I've seen it many times.

    The second, of course, is anyone starting out on a 100HP motorcycle. Some say start on a 250cc....I say start on a 50cc bike, and learn to ride. Then move up.....to a 100/125, etc.

    The third is anyone who claims that a 100 HP motorcycle is ok as a starter bike. It isn't.

    This will piss some of you off, but here goes: MOST RIDERS CANNOT HANDLE THE FULL POTENTIAL OF A 100 HP MOTORCYCLE, AND NEVER WILL! I know that I can't push my VFR to it's limits; the limits will always be mine, and I know them. I stay below them. That throttle can get you in big trouble, really fast, and all the gear in the world won't save you when you fight with a truck or run off a cliff. Many Pro racers won't ride on the street because it's too dangerous.

    You'd better approach that VFR with respect, bordering on sheer terror, or you will get hurt. Better yet, walk away until you have some serious riding time on the books.


    Lane
     
  7. Nungboy

    Nungboy New Member

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    Ah, Kudos to ALaskan and Foxfire for bring up Hough's "Proficient Motorcycling" (and his second book which is excellent). I think we all need to read all the time and practice the skills and examples that riders/writers like Hough bring up. Never stop learning.
    The point I like to always make is that it is easy to kill yourself on any two-wheeled machine, be it pedal powered, 50cc or 2300cc. VERY easy. Hough uses examples often of experienced guys making big mistakes. Folks with 2-3 years experience have MORE accidents than brand new riders. A big machine makes it easier in some ways to get into trouble but a loss of concentration, a poor choice, sand on the road, and especially, over-confidence, will all get you into trouble faster than horsepower. Life puts demands on the most important piece of gear--the one between your ears. Use it at all times or be ready to die. :blah: :blah: :blah:
     
  8. foxfire1

    foxfire1 New Member

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    Thank You.

    We've heard it before
    but it's worth repeating
    especially to a newbie on the verge of a big-bore learning bike:

    Start out on an appropriately-sized dirtbike,
    Read, study, converse with experienced riders, train...

    Move up (after due training, motivation, meditation, training...)
    to a dual-sport bike (35-40 hp) machine
    (but be very aware of braking and tire limitations, handling, etc.)
    repeat above (Reading, study, training, meditation, due consideration,

    move to a 250 or 500 (ninja, miniceptor :wink: , gs500 etc.)

    and after repeating all the above until ready--

    then ride the VFR, enjoy :biggrin: (and continuously practice above :clap2: )
     
  9. VT Viffer

    VT Viffer New Member

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    I learned how to ride the exact same way that camcclellan did. But I was on a 38 horsepower '82 Yamaha XS400R. It was a $300 garage find, and looked like shit (missing body parts, ripped seat, broken gauges, didn't run, etc.). Didn't mind so much if I dropped it. It didn't have any fairings to bust up, so that was a plus. Once I had the basics down, I made that rat into a beauty with a full resto. Taught me more about the mechanics of motorcycling than any book ever would.

    But just remember - you WILL drop this bike. It's inevitable with your first two wheeled machine. So the advice of removing the fairings may sound funny, but isn't a bad idea.

    I am also with rngdng about the learning curve. I am constantly learning more and more about my machine with every ride. The VFR is relatively new to me, and rather intimidating in comparison to the XS400. I don't think that I will ever reach the limits of this magnificent machine (The peg scrapers are still un-scraped!), but I intend on staying within them!
     
  10. camcclellan

    camcclellan New Member

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    It might be important to note that the ONLY reason that I chose to learn on a VFR is due to the fact that I had a car up for sale/trade, and I had been considering a motorcycle for some time. The monetary offers on the vehicle were few and far between, and some were insulting, but Mr. Fulton was interested in the car because he does rebuilds of classics.

    Had it not been for this fact, there is no way in hell that I would have chosen something like this for my first motorcycle.
     
  11. Nungboy

    Nungboy New Member

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    So here is a subtle question that (I hope) further defines this issue of a bigger starter bike. What is more important when learning how to ride on the street on any bike...the control issues (actually controlling the bike, getting the timing of one's movements with the controls, one's balance, etc.) or the issues of co-existing in traffic (making choices with regards to moving through traffic...you know, all the things other than controlling the machine)?
     
  12. tgreene5

    tgreene5 New Member

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    Good thinking on your part Cam. I think it would be wise of me to do a lot of the same while I get used to mine. No point hurrying to get into trouble.

    I have a large parking lot close to me, Intel, and plan on spending some time there, circles, soft & hard stops, figure eights, you sound as if you are doing all of the right things.

    Good luck!

    Theresa
     
  13. grinder

    grinder New Member

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    Most of what I seen above is good. I have one issue though. Braking in Corners. I disagree with "the don't brake in corners" comment. Most of the experienced guys can and do brake in corners, they are just used to what happens to the bike when they do. I would recommend that you try braking in corners on your practice in the parking lot. Just remember be very gentle with the brakes and the how sharp the corner is. The bike will tend to stand up and go in a straight line when you brake so make sure you have lots of room. With practice you can compensate for this with more countersteer. I believe that it is much better to get used to this characteristic under controlled conditions than to find out what happens in an emergency situation and believe me there will come a time when you need to brake in a corner. Not generally a good idea but sometimes neceessary.
     
  14. Yombute

    Yombute New Member

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    What they all said. MSF and Proficient Motorcycling. It's a good read and you can put it into practice as you...umm...practice.
     
  15. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    I agree with any or all who say to get on a smaller bike for your first street riding miles.
    Compared to smaller bikes the VFR is MUCH heavier and carries its weigh high above center of gravity, making slow speed control more difficult. IF you are a short person the VFR may be somewhat more difficult also because of insecure footing at first.
    Practice hard, controlled stopping using both brakes.
    As your riding comfort zone expands, keep practicing HARD straight stops from your maximum speed.

    Pick up FREE from your nearest HONDA dealer a booklet titled "You and your Motorcycle: Riding Tips". It contains useful suggestions and provides detailed practice excercises to work on and shows how to critique your own riding errors.

    One of my little hints to new riders: ALWAYS have your front wheel exactly STRAIGHT when stopping or stopped or getting ready to take off, and always keep your hand pressing on the front brake whenever you are stopped.
     
  16. SCraig

    SCraig New Member

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    I personally don't think a beginning rider can get complacent about either one. That's one of the reasons I harp on taking the MSF BRC. Over a couple of days most people get enough of the mechanics of using the clutch, brake, shifter, throttle, etc. down pat in a very strictly controlled environment. Being on the street by yourself for the first few times can be an overwhelming experience and the more experience you can get while limiting one of the factors is important. If a rider is even marginally accustomed to the mechanics that means less of his attention is focused on those things leaving more attention to focus on the traffic and the situation around him.

    We HAVE to see what's going on around us. Cars and trucks are not going to watch out for us, we have to do most of that ourselves. The more we can relegate the mechanics of just handling the motorcycle to our subconscious the more we can use our conscious mind for situational awareness.
     
  17. Alaskan

    Alaskan Member

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    Nungboy, I think controlling the bike is more important than reading traffic. Although a lapse in either will get you a good scare or worse.

    I learned on dirt bikes - on trails, gravel roads and in the mud. I believe that learning bike control in the dirt pays off on the street.

    I may be a bit of an old codger because I got my first motorcycle in 1970, but we all learned to ride in the dirt. My first street motorcycle was a Honda S90. I wrung that out all the time. It only had two speeds - stop and top. Then a Honda 350. That had a lot more power and needed more respect. Then a Triumph Daytona with high compression pistons and a cams. That demanded respect! Then a Triumph Bonneville. Then a BMW 750. And so on. So, what's the combined HP of all three of my first bikes - maybe 65 HP tops? Newbies today are buying 100+ HP bikes. A VFR is a 100 horsepower bike. I would have been intimidated if I had started out on it. I guess I am a weenie.
     
  18. hugebigfatrhino

    hugebigfatrhino New Member

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    So I've read everything everyone has written and here are my thoughts so far:

    1. At the urging of folks here we are talking an MSF course weekend after next.
    2. We are responsible people and will not push the bike anywhere close to its limits. We have been spending a lot of time riding around the less busy streets of our neighborhood and will not leave them until we are good and ready.
    3. Yes the bike is heavy for a starter bike and we have already dropped it twice but we bought it as a beater and aren't worried about it at all.
     
  19. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Calling your VFR a " beater bike" may offend the more sensitive among us...........

    ANOTHER TIP: tyres naturally loose air at a slow rate, so always be certain your tyres are properly inflated using an accurate gague.
     
  20. woody77

    woody77 New Member

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    I'll agree with this. My '86 is my first, and now with 2K miles of experience, it's still hard to handle in a way that my wife's '88 Hawk isn't. Biggest difference? 100lbs of bike. Yeah, the Hawk's only 50Hp vs the 70-odd of the old vfr, but that 100lbs makes a HUGE difference, and the hawk's meaty midrange makes it easier to ride (won't lug nearly so easily). The lower seat and easier reach helps, too. But a lighter bike is, I think, more important than power.

    Oh, and MSF. I took the MSF before I bought the bike. Actually too long before I took it. Almost took it again, just to get a feel for things again on a smaller bike instead of the big VFR.

    Adding again later:

    I've read Hough's book twice, and highly recommend it. Also Lee Park's Total Control after you're more comfortable on the bike, but it's pretty advanced stuff.

    The local quiet street riding was how I started. Rode it to a friend's house in a quiet neighborhood, via the quietest route I could (never went over 45), at low traffic times. Then I rode it in his area as much as I could, would drive to his place in the morning, and then ride from there to work and back, and then drive home, etc.

    My area is a bit too excessively fun for starting out in. It's great now, but I'm glad I'd ridden a bit before I rode on the roads that the weekend warriors pound to death on the weekends.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2008
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