3rd gen rc36 overhaul advice

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by Blackslide, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. Blackslide

    Blackslide New Member

    Country:
    Finland
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    A precursor:

    So I was riding the last 200+ miles with a totally worn out rear tire, and the front is over 4 yrs old. And I think they are way past their useable life. (Rear has worn down to the wires).

    Right front strut leaks oil and the front feels way too soft. Also the rear feels like it sinks way too much when I sit on the bike. And the rear wheel feels light and slippery on bumpy roads. Also a weird wiggle in the rear when cornering.

    Lots of other little issues, like loose chain, worn front sprocket, etc...

    So I'm planning on changing:
    -tires, brakepads, fluids, maybe discs and hoses
    -wheel bearings, front shock seals and fluid, chain and sprockets
    -maybe add a shim under the clutch spring
    -install a new battery and doing the drill

    So I wonder:
    Can the front improve with just new seals and maybe slightly more fluid than specs say?

    Could I get a stiffer spring for the rear, is it an easy swap?

    Can I perform these on the "stock" centerstand at once or do I have to do front first, then rear, or vice-versa?

    I like the general stance and flickability of the bike, what measurements should I mark down, before I start removing parts from the bike?

    What would be the most straightforward course of action to perform all these in succession, in ex. without having to refill coolant many times, etc.?

    Thanks in advance to the great community on this forum, keep on riding folks![​IMG]

    Riding on the storm
     
  2. squirrelman#1

    squirrelman#1 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2019
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    28
    how many miles or km's on it ??
     
  3. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    5,112
    Likes Received:
    418
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Desert Southwest
    Map
    It is hard to get to a destination, when you don't know where you want to go. Decide where you want to go, then create a tentative road map on how you want to get there. Research the journey to the first stop on the map, get it figured out, and start moving towards stop one. As you are moving towards stop one, begin researching and figuring out what stop two will be, and so on, and so on. You don't eat an elephant in one bite. You have to have a plan before you even start.
     
  4. Blackslide

    Blackslide New Member

    Country:
    Finland
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    It has 64k km or 40k mi on the dial, but it is an import, so it might be false, or not.

    Let's say my budget is very constrained, but I love the bike. I would like to make the suspension firmer and make it a safe ride for long trips. I'm not going to build a showroom piece, but a reliable fun workhorse, sort of.

    Apparently a stand is required for any work in the front. Not sure about the rear shock tho..

    I guess I'll just start with taking the panels off, doing the brakes, and all the stuff in the front, along with eliminating possible electrical issues. Apparently the front shock is an easy fix.

    I'll wonder about the rear after the front is sorted.

    Had a short trip just for fun, can't quite know when I get to ride her again :([​IMG]

    Riding on the storm
     
  5. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    South FL
    Map
    Good on you for posting pictures as I do not have to use this: :worthless:
    1.) You can get stiffer springs and if you need to do your fork seals do it, go with 7 weight fork oil as the lighter stuff is not for this bike.
    2.) You can be penurious with things but tyres NO. Those were so so worn, I won't lecture you though. Tyres make the bike, nuff sed.
    3.) Rear shock, you have to read up on a shock swap, I have a Fox, and a Penske on my Gen 3z. Btw, my favourite VFR, nothing else compares.
    4.) Wheel bearings, if you take your wheels off and test them then replace. One of mine has 80,000 and the other has 30,000 and they are perfect.
    5.) Brakes you can generally reuse piston seals, sometime the dust seals get wasted. Take y0ur time cleaning out the grooves in the calipers with a wooden stick with some scotchbrite pads cut to match (try to avoid metal as it can gouge.) Bleeder nipples may need to be replaced, I used HEL with excellent results.
    Peace and I know that the Backyard Babies are Swedish and Volbeat are from Denmark but anyway, Rock On.
     

    Attached Files:

    Blackslide likes this.
  6. Blackslide

    Blackslide New Member

    Country:
    Finland
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I was thinking of going with the 10w that was stated in the service manual I've got, but a stiffer spring and 7w fluid would be better? (As in faster bump and rebound action with a little stiffer feel?)

    I know, my tires are shot, going to replace with brand new sport/touring tires (I do favour ironbutt rides over short sprints ;) )

    Apparently the 89-91 stock shock is a basic non-adjustable unit. They added preload adjustment into the 92-93 model.
    I guess an adjustment is recommended for two up riding. I'm interested in the ZX-14 rear shock swap, at least it seems quite straightforward in the youtube video... But since someone stated that all stock shocks are "not that good", so I'm wondering if a properly set up aftermarket shock would be a better choice, albeit quite expensive... as in, is it worth it in a street bike? :/

    I'll check the wheels for any play, mounted and unmounted, once I get it on a proper stand (or improvised one). I doubt they might be pitted, since she's been standing in a shed for years.

    Yes, the calipers seem like a quality unit, so a rebuild seems easy. I was actually thinking of getting braided lines and bleeders from HEL :) (brakes feel a bit lackluster)

    Thanks for the hints, and keep the rubber side down!
    [​IMG]

    Riding on the storm
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  7. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    South FL
    Map
    Hi, nice TT! I got HEL on both of my Gen3 bikes and think they are worth the extra money, I had a bleeder issue and they saved my bacon as I was getting weeping on the threads of the bleeder where it screwed into the caliper. Chalk it up to old components, I used a liquid teflon Locktite product in the past but was happy after talking with them that the tolerances on their stainless bleeders where better than the OEM honda stuff. Don't forget about your master cylinders/clutch too. They get dirty and an over-haul is not ruled out of your future (easy job - sometimes it can bite you on the butt though.)

    I have a Fox shock which I bought new back in 1995 that was overhauled by Fox a few times. On my 93 I scored a used Penske shock which I sent back to the factory to have the correct spring installed and re-built. It was still cheaper than buying a new unit.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. squirrelman#1

    squirrelman#1 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2019
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    28
    @ 40k miles, the steering head bearings may need replacement, but at least clean and regrease them.
     
  9. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    South FL
    Map
    No free dance right? Have my maintenance records in the garage, I am gona look. 76,000 miles done 0911 - bike only accrued another 4000 miles in 8 years? Man I feel ashamed. It does get a yearly oil change btw. I remember when I did the steering head bearings on this bike, I could tell as soon as I backed out of my garage it felt different. So there is my story. Hi Jerry :wave:
     
  10. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader New Member

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    melton mowbray
    Map
    With the bike on its centre stand ,and a helper pushing down on the back, push a length of wood between the headers from the sump to the floor. The front end can be removed, it looks very unsafe but works
     
  11. Blackslide

    Blackslide New Member

    Country:
    Finland
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yes, I'm going to change those when I pull the forks, 3rd party bearings are quite cheap. I started taking bits and pieces off the bike and the brake/clutch fluids were totally useless..

    I laid her down accidentially, bending the mirror and breaking a footpeg in the process.. I also "built" a service stand.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Riding on the storm
     
  12. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    South FL
    Map
     
  13. Blackslide

    Blackslide New Member

    Country:
    Finland
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I tried the search but didn't find an answer. The short version:
    To do seals and fluid on the 1990 rc36 41mm showa front shocks, do I have to loosen or remove the bottom bolts also?
    I have no air/electric tools available atm.

    I also noticed that the rear wheel has sideways play, the brake disc touches the pads on either side. Is the bearing just loose or busted? The rear arm doesn't have play (tested by twisting rear wheel by hand).

    As always, any help is greatly appreciated!

    The long one:
    So, I wrestled the top caps loose (who on earth did these items on this bike!?! One of the front fender bolts was totally stuck, the brake calipers were stuck, the front shock too caps didn't accept the 17mm socket without a hammer, etc. None of the bolts that have a specified torque, were anywhere near those. I hope most of the relevant threads are still okay. Looks like everything was hamfisted tight with a 5ft extension, or something.) :rolleyes:

    To do seals and fluid on the front shocks, do I have to loosen or remove the bottom bolts also? I want to try 7.5wt fluid, with slightly higher level than stock and otherwise stock setup. Read about the struggles with them bolts and I have no air/electric tools atm...

    I have only found one set of progressive springs and they didn't specify spring rate, rider weight, or anything and were expensive. I'm sure there are more springs available, but haven't found any yet. Maybe a project for the next winter.

    I also found an aftermarket rear shock, for 599€ it sounds a bit steep. Maybe a stock zx14 or r1 rear shock swap is in order. :/

    I also noticed that the rear wheel has sideways play, the brake disc touches the pads on either side. Is the bearing just loose or busted? The rear arm doesn't have play (tested by twisting rear wheel by hand).

    As always, any help is greatly appreciated!





    Riding on the storm
     
  14. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    South FL
    Map
    rear wheel should have zero side to side play, from what I heard the bearing set-up is pretty much bullet proof. If you have to remove it, it looks like a bitch as you need a large press to install new bearings etc. If you were talking about the caliper having some side to side play, YES they all do as they are floating on a pin. Wheel NO - Caliper YE$.

    You can get progressively wound springs for these bikes from many manufacturers, good move on 7.5 oil, You should use recommended quantity for each leg though. You may be able to get away with removing the bottom leg with a long 6MM allen with a breaker bar while the fork leg is in your vice (thats if you already removed it from the bike.) Generally, I like to break that bottom bolt loose first before I do any fork seal replacement. Then the most satisfying part of the job is "whack whack whacking the bottom leg in slide hammer fashion until the whole bunch of kit detaches it self from the stanchion leg (you removed the Honda wave retaining ring under the dust seal on each leg? I hope.) Ok, good luck, Pictures are appreciated yah KNOW :mech: Peace
     
  15. Blackslide

    Blackslide New Member

    Country:
    Finland
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Hmm, no vice, tried a battery powered drill with ratchet (no clue what torque it gives, it is arm/wrist hurting strong). That bolt is not coming off with my tools..

    It feels like it needs a stiffer spring, but then again, it has been leaking from day one. If only I could test ride a known working bike.. since if even that feels the same I'll need to take the shocks to a specialist.

    The rear wheel bearing has play in it, so I the swimgarm needs to come out and go to a shop. I think the rear shock needs to come off at the same time.

    I guess she'll be sitting in pieces for the rest of the summer and coming winter... :([​IMG]

    Riding on the storm
     
  16. Blackslide

    Blackslide New Member

    Country:
    Finland
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Just one question upfront: is it okay to use a standard(or high quality) bleeder screw in the clutch slave cylinder? I noticed it is slightly different on both ends.

    But, a little progress in the bathroom :)

    Been cleaning the brakes and clutch. A lot of rust and gunk there, but most of the parts seem almost like new after a soak and wash operation. Only the rear brake master piston is reluctant to move freely and some of the brake caliper pistons were a little stuck.

    At the moment it looks like I need new caliper seals, one pair of master piston seals and 3 dust boots. Maybe new slide pins and rubber boots.

    All of the repair sets are overpriced and have way too many parts, so I guess it is the local shops or the internet..

    I'll try and finish these next to no-cost items in the coming week and wrap the bike up, before I'm off to work for god knows how long :D[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Riding on the storm
     
  17. Blackslide

    Blackslide New Member

    Country:
    Finland
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Well, guess what? The local shop I went to, didn't have any of those parts at hand, so it was either chinese knock-offs or the local mc parts "importer".

    I went with the importer, they are nearby and have a decent selection of parts.

    Most of the stuff was ordered, but I got the front caliper seals and rear brake master cylinder repair kit.. 95eur. I do hope the tourmax kits are durable, because their effect on my wallet is quite.

    I prepped the calipers and some other stuff for installation, once I get the chance to reverse this process of pulling stuff apart. And left the front shocks at the local shop. They'll change seals and fluids, and swap the springs to Bitubo brand progressive springs.

    They only have Bitubo rear shocks, 599 and 649eur. I'm reluctant to move such money, for such low-end gear. Maybe I'll find a used Öhlins for cheap? :)[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Riding on the storm
     
  18. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    South FL
    Map
    Hey!!! Nice write up!!! I went through all that stuff times II, its kind of par for the course when your working with 30 year old motorcycles. I bought replacement rear brake pistons for my 93 Interceptor as the originals were trashed, I think I bought a donor replacement rear caliper that had equally screwed pistons. I do remember that the doode that was selling them was from the UK, Ebay purchase (they could be used on other models too.) You know those UK types have these "cottage industry" businesses out of their garages, this doode made them that way. Anyway, I enjoyed reading looking at your pictures Right On! Its hot as balls out here in South Florida, so I have not really been riding that much, plus taking care of a three year old daughter takes some time. I plan on starting a newer job and will be commuting on the GPZ500 from time to time. No more crazy commutes, I just say, "NO" to that.
     
  19. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    South FL
    Map
    You should consider getting rid of the roached out bleeder valves, I never had problems with my brake calipers until I rebuilt my 91 front calipers which were overhauled about 20 years ago. I got a small bit of weepage around the bleeder regardless of tightness, remember its a small 8mm six sided hex, not alot of torque is required. I was lucky and had a conversation with HEL who makes the brake lines I use on these bikes. Long story short, they have stainless steel bleeders that worked perfect. You should not have to use sealing paste or teflon tape to seal a bleeder valve yah know.

    My clutch slaves were weeping right out of the OEM box, I ended up using a 3M thread paste that we used on locomotives. Worked out, at that time I did not know about the stainless bleeders (the stock OEM Honda bleeders were junk btw.) Peace and love :mech:
     
  20. Blackslide

    Blackslide New Member

    Country:
    Finland
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I'll have to fix the front "performance in general" first. Trying first with mostly stock parts and cost effective, read: "cheap ass", alternatives. If it still feels overly vague, I'm guessing a 929, 954 or F4i front conversion would be my next option. Might fix the forks and brakes for good. Not trying to make it into a race replica or anything, just quick and firm. (quick for a tourer, that is. Guessing a lot of the feel comes from the way it is set up. The shop will help me dial it in, once the rear is also sorted.)

    Once I'm satisfied with the suspension. Hel performance hoses are going to be fitted, with their stainless bleeders. Just not 100% sure about the fit on the clutch slave. But then again, the stock part does look like it will snap in two, real easy, if it's reused. Although I cleaned it up with a very careful use of a wirebrush head on the battery drill.

    In addition to doing all the sorely missed maintenance items, there's all sorts of stuff on the horizon.

    New footpegs (or newer used ones from some other bike), 520 or 525 chain and sprocket conversion with lighweight (steel) sprockets, 525 feels most tempting for weight loss vs durability. Exhaust system? Doing a "once over" on the head ports. A lighter subframe with a slimmer licence bracket and a hugger...among a ton of other stuff.

    Riding on the storm
     
Related Topics

Share This Page