5th Gen not running quite right

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by Highvactech, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. Highvactech

    Highvactech New Member

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    Hello,

    I have a 99 (red) with ~52k KM on it. The bike runs well overall and appeared to be well cared for when I purchased it used in 2015. I store it over the winter full of gas with some Seafoam or fuel stabilizer in the tank indoors. The bike doesn't get a lot of k's on it, where I purchased it with 48k in 2015. We did some renovations that had the bike in storage (built a garage) and our street is ripped up so I have not been out as much as I should. I change the oil every season and it has a newer air filter. Nothing is living in the airbox. I just put plugs in it and that has not helped. The old plugs looked consistent and relatively normal to perhaps slightly rich/dark looking. I can try and post a picture. Definitely more chocolate than sand colored. I pulled the hose off the FPR and it appeared to be dry. Bike sometimes smells a bit rich at startup. What I am finding is that the bike seems to miss more than I would expect at all RPM levels. It is rideable and pulls fine but not stellar. It likes 5th gear better on the expressway spinning 6k over 6th gear spinning 5k at 120 km/h but I suspect this is not out of the norm too much. Pulls from a stop okay but seems to have a bit more motor vibration than I remember and just doesn't really feel "willing" to go. Fuel economy seems normal with about 250 km per tank where I am conservative on filling up early at 2 bars typically. I have ran a bunch of different fuel injector cleaners and Seafoam through it with little change. I do notice that the oil level increases a bit over the riding season and over the winter which appears to indicate that the injectors may be leaking. I have read a few different posts where some have found that injector cleaner has helped, and others more with the 6th Gen multi hole injectors have had injectors serviced/cleaned with good results. With the larger single orifice on these it doesn't seem to be as big a deal. Bike has an aftermarket can, flapper disabled and pair blanked off. Good solid state rectifier/older battery but starts fine and the volt meter says 14 volts usually. I usually run 91 octane gas, but tried a tank of 87 for fun and it seems the same. I am not sure what all the fuss is about on octane level but don't want to start that conversation up! I have no history on valve adjustment but would assume it was at least checked once.

    So the question is do you find your bike misses frequently or almost never at all? Am I worried about nothing? I suppose I could try to shoot a video of the bike running but I am not sure if I am tech savvy enough to post it here. I could email it if anyone really wants a listen.

    The next step appears to be to have the injectors cleaned but I might try more bottled stuff and see if it helps at all. Maybe I just need to ride it harder! Or maybe a valve adjustment that I am not looking forward to finding time to try and do. Any ideas and experiences/questions or comments are welcome.

    Cheers,
    Sean
     
  2. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    A bike that sits can develop unwanted corrosion in connectors that can affect the sparking making it weak; I had this on my ST1100. A (relatively) simple step would be to go through all the connectors and disconnect, apply contact cleaner and maybe some corrosion preventer (I use dielectric graese) and see if that helps. I would focus on the wires that go to the ignition switch and right bar pod as these convey all the power for the ignition system.
    My 99 doesn't really wake up until 4500 rpm, and is a bit shuddery below that esp in higher gears, not missing but just the firing order and light flywheel I think. My VTR1000F is strangely happy from about 2500 upwards, but does have a heavier flywheel feel.
     
  3. GreginDenver

    GreginDenver New Member

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    Don't be so sure about that, seems there's more than a few VFR owners who take great pride in the fact their bike has never had a valve adjustment, "and it runs just fine".
     
  4. stubbs

    stubbs New Member

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    Those symptoms make me suspect you’ve got weak spark. I’d look at your coils and plug wires and make sure those are healthy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  5. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    a new set of sparkplugs couldn't hurt !
     
  6. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Insider

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    +1 on the connector clean.
    I would also stop putting crap in the tank, to keep doing it is not going to sort anything.
    A bit hard to diagnose without hearing what it's doing, but there should be no misses anywhere.
    My bike also does not pull from below 4500 rpm, and I rarely have it below 6000.
    It gets the vibes up around 7500 all the way up, but is not bad.
    Every time I've checked the valves, I found a few that need adjusting, and unlike a lot of people here I would not ignore it.
    There are a lot who claim that they've never needed adjusting, but others have, how do you know which group your bikes belongs to?
    Mine has 120k km on it now, and still pulls cleanly from 4500.
    My oil level never changes.
    They are great bikes, but age is starting to show on them, I also think a bike that is not ridden often has more issues then one that is.
    Again, check all connections, that can play havoc with many things on the bike.
     
  7. Highvactech

    Highvactech New Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. The bike does have new plugs and an inspection of the wires and coils revealed that they seemed fine visually. The rubber boots are still soft and the wires are not worn through anywhere. The wires to the coils were clean and so were the connections. I did pull the connections off and reseat them to be sure.

    It is interesting that so far no one has suggested to do anything with the injectors. I know they are leaking enough that I had to remove some oil and it smelled strongly of gas. If they are leaking then there is something not right about them where I think this will be my next step.

    I will take a look at the connectors as well especially if I am digging in to remove injectors. Yes I need to ride it more! Yes I should do a valve adjustment or win the lottery and have someone do it for me. This could be a cause for sure but injectors are a tiny bit easier than a valve adjustment. I will probably do a FPR as well while I am in there. Thermostat seems to function correctly (knock on wood) so unless the hoses look terrible I may leave this alone.
     
  8. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Insider

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    I did my injectors at 90k Km, and they were fine, the worst was 5% out, but worth doing if the bike sits a lot.
    Injectors are not a very easy job, but while there (with plenty of room) you might as well check the valves (no harder).
     
  9. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Checking valves is easy; it's resetting them that's much harder.
     
  10. RllwJoe

    RllwJoe Member

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    If it were me,.... I would replace the thermostat. All of the difficult work is in removing the throttle body, after that changing the thermostat is a peice of cake. You will want to have a new "o-ring" (it is a special shape- not standard) ready beforehand for the housing. The new thermostat is not expensive, when I changed mine a year and a half ago the Honda thermostat was about $25.
     
  11. elvish

    elvish New Member

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    if you are confused by the condition of your injector, then simply remove the air filter (filter element, not the housing) and look at the condition of the valves. if it looks like my photo, you can clean it there is nothing complicated. if the tank is not filled with bad gasoline, the injectors will be clean. And if you decide to clean the injector, it makes sense to immediately replace the thermostat and check the valve gaps. or again to change the spark =)))
     

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    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  12. Cycleman1

    Cycleman1 New Member

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    Make sure the choke/enrichener is going all the way off.
     
  13. bigbadbass

    bigbadbass New Member

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    I had a fuel stink on my '98 with 35K miles at the time (about 2 year ago? ) . Trying to anticipate.....prior to diving in.....I ordered injector seals, a thermostat and fuel pressure regulator, and was prepped to clean the "V" out, "do it all" while deep inside...knowing the bike is ageing and not wanting to repeat for a long time to come.

    Upon loosening the clamps for the throttle body mount rubbers, I discovered all clamp screws to be loose...and one severely misting (accounting for the stink). I went ahead with the aforementioned parts replacements regardless. Upon proper reassembly, no more stink, slightly improved mileage, a rock solid idle and off idle throttle response., stable running temps, a much cleaner engine V ...... starts at the touch of the button...revs right to redline .....and zero running issues anywhere.

    Thats as deep as I'm going in, relieved I did it all, for the foreseeable future at least.

    I'm in the club of checking valves too....11 of 16 were out (10 tight, 1 loose) at around 20K miles.

    I'd suggest investing effort above and beyond whilst in there.

    Re electrics and your miss.......check ignition coil primary and secondary values? Tight coil connections? Simple and easy checks.
     
  14. Highvactech

    Highvactech New Member

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    Guys,

    Just an update on the status of this. I went ahead and pulled everything down a couple months ago and sent the injectors for cleaning at Toronto Injector. They did a great job and even provide a little video of the injectors running. The flow match was 1.46% which is much better than some of the eBay sets I see for sale cheap so I was happy I did the earth friendly thing and got them cleaned. The solvent they use probably degrades the ozone layer but we'll ignore that for now! I think they were $30 per injector CAD with return shipping and all new seals, ready to install. While I was in there and had it all apart I did a valve check. I could see that someone had been in before as there was different sealant on the valve covers plus the factory sealant. All but one valve was in spec. Most were out .001" from the spec loose or tight but not outside tolerance except for an exhaust valve on the front which was loose ( a 0.014" feeler fit). So for those that argue you can just check the rear head I disagree. I pulled the cam and exchanged the shim at the dealer for free. I bought oil and filter there so he did alright anyway but it was nice that they did exchange it. I did not do the thermostat (go ahead and flame away, I was low on funds at the time and it is working fine at the moment...). I also now have confidence that I can get in there pretty quickly. I could see a bit of junk on an exhaust valve from right (sorry I forget the cylinder number - it is tough enough for me to run on all I have!). I have seen this before in other images of other motors which is interesting. Otherwise the valves were very clean. Put it all back together and did a throttle sync with a Motion Pro. This was a mistake in that I did not understand that the Motion Pro is not calibrated. I would buy a dial set with some calibration knowing this now. I did estimate the calibration based on the range of the unit and the increments being about 1 cm apart. The bike definitely runs better. It likes to rev more and pulls harder and I think most of the miss is gone. The idle seems a bit rougher but hard to say. I run a Delkevic carbon can with out the baffle in it and this might have something to do with it? The Pair valves are permanently blocked off and I have the flapper disconnected. Snorkel is still in place. I rode the bike once or twice and the weather has turned so it is ready to go to sleep for the winter. Now I have started a winter project XL185S. I bought one that is rough and plan to buy another for parts. Should be an interesting winter.
    Oh yes and I did find the boot screws were loose as well. I attributed this to some shrinkage with age. I have them all snug now which should help.
     
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  15. Aaron Chad

    Aaron Chad New Member

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    Could be the chain if you have stuff links and letting it sit can cause slight amounts of rust or corrosion to build up. Used to have this problem with one of my bikes till I changed the chain. Pulling away was jumpy and highway speeds didn’t feel very smooth. So check out your chain and see if it’s got a tight spot or two
     
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