Another adventure

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by deja vu, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. deja vu

    deja vu New Member

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    After the excitement the '86 VFR750 brought me - memories, etc., it was hard to stop... An opportunity presented itself to pick up an '87 VFR700 in the very cool dark blue color - from a gentleman who is local and who posts on this forum quite frequently.

    This one is a bit more challenging than the last one - not running, with recently overhauled carburetors and a rusted out fuel tank. Some updates:
    • Ran electrolysis on the fuel tank for 2.5 days (sodium carbonate/hot water) followed by a pressure wash
    • Changed coolant
    • Reinstalled carburetors, air box, new air filter (needed a new bike for the extra air filter)
    • New battery

    Next up:
    • Overhaul the clutch master cylinder
    • POR-15 for the tank (already getting flash rust)

    On the horizon:
    • New fuel tank cap (Ebay special didn't cut it; need to go OEM)
    • Minor repair to right, front cowling
    • Tire replacement
    • New chain and sprockets
    Took out lots of crud from the tank. The bike looks nice in full regalia. The satisfaction of bringing them back to life is addicting...
     

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  2. Bill Mclean

    Bill Mclean New Member

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    Looks great! Just cleaned my rusted tank with Metal Restore and it came out great. Didn't harm paint and let it sit inside for 3 days. I'll be following this post, those blue and silver are so rare in good condition. Good luck
     
  3. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    Dogs guarding the bikes. lol Nice pups.
     
  4. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    The blue VFRs are so pretty. Buddy had one right when they came out. Watched him flip it doing a wheelie, then it smashed off of the upper cowl and windshield and then flipped back forward!!! I then watched it ghost ride a half block right into a concrete staircase of a dance club in front of a crowd of people. It was awesome and terrible.

    Good job so far by the way.
     
  5. deja vu

    deja vu New Member

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    Holy crap - hopefully this one won't end up like that. My wheelie days ended with the '86 750 back in the late '80s, so perhaps not something I need to worry about. Ordered new gas cap and some claptrap for the clutch master cylinder today - should hopefully be receiving toward the end of the week. The goal is to have it at least running by the end of next weekend.
     
  6. deja vu

    deja vu New Member

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    A quick update:
    • Spent Thursday on the battle of the tank - using POR15; attached photographs (probably the best possible without a borescope) show that the treatment generally worked well
    • With the battery installed, I turned over the engine with the starter

    Next steps:
    • Waiting on POR15 to cure; should be ready on Tuesday morning
    • Also waiting on fuel filter and OEM gas cap (very expensive, fortunately still available) - should hopefully arrive sometime early next week
    • When cured and fuel filter/gas cap are received, will install the fuel tank, add some ethanol-free fuel, and attempt to start-up

    In addition to the above, should be receiving the clutch master cylinder plunger with the fuel filter/gas cap - this will hopefully get the clutch to operational status. With the bike fired up (hopefully not getting ahead of myself here), focus will turn to the chain/sprockets (the chain is FUBAR), the tires ('06 vintage Metzelers) and checking the brakes/adjusting the carburetors.

    Some comments on POR15 (certainly others have more experience than me with this stuff):
    • The tenacity of the material is reminiscent of Duracoat with which I have much more run time
    • The masking process, which I spent three rolls of masking tape on was a waste of time - better to cover the tank with plastic than to use masking tape - there's staining on the exterior of the tank, most likely due to the phosphoric acid reacting with the clearcoat
    • The treatment appears to be generally effective, with the keys being cleaning, thoroughness of the etching, and given the viscosity of the coating, to SLOWLY (as noted in the instructions) roll the tank to ensure adequate coverage
    • Adhesion of the coating appears to also be dependent on a dry tank interior (see photo)
    The 2.5 days of electrolysis were probably extremely helpful given the condition of the tank - I can't see doing this without having pulled out 10 gallons of rust particle laden water beforehand.

    This morning (morning after the application), the coating was hard to the touch and appears to have adhered to the entire tank interior. No pooling was noted. From what I can tell, the coating didn't blind the vent screen inside the tank, though I also purchased a new petcock and low level sensor o-ring and will be replacing these once the curing is complete. Overall, the treatment appears effective, though, as others have recommended, most people should allot a full day (8-10 hours) for the treatment and set aside a dedicated space to ensure plenty of elbow room while operating. I used a shallow plastic container about 2.5' x 4' x 6" to hold the tank. The dirty part comes at the end (I'll be waiting 3-4 days for my skin to slough off my hands to get the paint off even though I went through about 8 pairs of nitrile gloves).
     

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    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  7. deja vu

    deja vu New Member

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    The bike runs! After the tank cured, received the correct OEM fuel tank gas cap and also a filter. I was able to plumb the fuel filter and add about 2 gallons of ethanol free gas. After powering up and opening the petcock, I could see fuel in the filter. After about 20 to 30 seconds of cranking (10 secs, stop, then another 10 or so secs), she began to fire. The previous owner had fogged two of the cylinders every week, so there was smoke everywhere. With the choke on, the engine was up about 4,400 rpm - I adjusted the idle set and after something of a warmup, I brought the idle down closer to 1,500 rpm. After smoking up my garage, I turned the bike off and moved it outside and it restarted very easily.

    Afterward, I installed the connecting rod in the master cylinder (between the handle and the plunger) and couldn't get any flow: apparently the plunger/seals are bad. I ordered a clutch master cylinder rebuild kit and some spark plugs. Next steps:
    • Install new spark plugs
    • Replace the oil in the engine
    • Replace the plunger, seals, etc., in the clutch master cylinder
    Also, I'll have to read up regarding the carb adjustments to find out if they could be contributing to the smoke - the bike seemed to idle fairly smoothly and throttle response was fairly crisp, all things considered. Besides the above, the bike needs new tires and chain/sprocket. Hopefully there won't e any need for an engine teardown due to worn rings, etc. Stay tuned...
     
  8. sixdog

    sixdog New Member

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  9. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

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    I have no experience with POR15 but read where it appeared to have affected the paint on your tank even though you masked it. A thought popped into my head that is obviously too late for you, but could be useful to someone planning on using it in the future.

    For what it costs, maybe buy a rattle can of Plasti-dip paint and give the tank's exterior a good covering with that stuff before using the POR15. Plasti-dip dries very much like rubber, and really peals off easily. I have used it on my seat cowl and top of my hard bags to protect the paint from my kicking them when getting on and off the bike. After it was all marked up, I just peeled it off and the paint was good as new beneath it.

    Plasti-dip comes in a few colours including clear. Dries with a semi gloss finish. People here have used it to change the colours on their bikes such as the wheels, just to see what it would look like before they take the plunge and repaint or powder-coat
     
  10. deja vu

    deja vu New Member

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    Great points and something I'll definitely consider if relining a tank in the future. My feeble attempt with the roll(s) of masking tape didn't quite yield the desired outcome.

    I'm currently waiting on a new voltage regulator/rectifier now that the bike starts up very easily and I've apparently fixed the clutch (overhauled the master cylinder).

    After that, the next step will be to take the bike for a ride around the block then I'll probably be replacing both tires and also the chain/sprockets. The bike should definitely be street-ready by then and I'll concentrate on cosmetics, which include the sagging turn signal stems and sourcing a trim piece for the front windshield - the two clips are there, but the trim piece is long gone.
     
  11. deja vu

    deja vu New Member

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    The latest: Had recently rebuilt the clutch master cylinder and was able to bleed the clutch. Before this, was unable to bleed the clutch since the seals on the piston were apparently bad. After replacing the components and bleeding the clutch, the pressure on the clutch lever still felt very weak. Started the bike (it now starts consistently given the carb rebuild, the tank painting, etc.) and when I put the bike into gear, it died. I removed the clutch slave cylinder and actuated the lever and no movement on the slave cylinder where it actuates the clutch rod. Since the bike was originally in New Jersey, it may have spent time out in the cold and whatever caused the rubber to fail on the master cylinder may have caused the rubber in the slave cylinder to fail as well, resulting in no hydraulic actuation.

    Fortunately, the slave cylinder is still generally available, so one is on order and I'll post an update once received and installed. This should be the last step before being able to street test the bike for the first time!
     
  12. deja vu

    deja vu New Member

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    It lives! After much delay, replacing the slave cylinder, replacing the master cylinder and no luck with increasing the fluid pressure, I picked up a small hand vacuum pump (MityVac). After about 5-10 minutes of set-up and pumping, yesterday I managed to get get the hydraulic clutch to work. The telltale sign was the squirt out of the reservoir (with the cover removed).

    After firing her up on the stand, I confirmed that the clutch was in fact taking the bike out of gear and 10 minutes later I was going down the street.

    Now, the real work begins...
     
  13. deja vu

    deja vu New Member

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    New chain - ready to mount rear tire - front tire on order, as well as new (non-OEM) turn signals. Had to remove clutch slave cylinder to take out the the drive sprocket. What a PITA - back to clutch purgatory...MitiVac seal dried out...to be continued...
     

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  14. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    Why did you have to lose your bleed on the clutch system to move the Slave Cyl out of your way? You don't even need to remove it from the counter shaft cover if you don't want to.
     
  15. deja vu

    deja vu New Member

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    That's a good question - not sure why. When I bought the bike, the slave cylinder was leaking near the banjo bolt and after looking at one of the on-line sources (Partzilla), I noticed they still stock a compatible slave cylinder. I ordered this rather than rebuilding the slave cylinder.

    Fast forward to chain/sprocket replacement: When I removed the counter shaft cover - 1 long bolt and one short bolt, it wouldn't budge. I noticed the slave cylinder appeared sits on top of this cover and that 2 of the 3" bolts on the slave cylinder appear to pierce the counter shaft cover and attach in front of the clutch housing-so I removed all three bolts (including the short one on the slave cylinder) - perhaps I'm missing something. When removing these bolts to pull of the counter shaft cover, the clutch system dumped a bunch of fluid.

    To make things even more weird, the slave cylinder has the spring outside of the piston while the diagrams in the Clymer and Haynes manuals seem to show the spring being located between the slave cylinder housing and the piston (inside the piston). At that point, I was done. The chain looks great - the sprockets are shiny...and the bike is still on the stand...time for some bourbon...
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  16. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    You're slave is... hard to find the words... just wrong. "Compatible", oooohhhhh-k. It should not dump fluid just removing it from the cover. Spring goes on inside.

    Source a stock one (hopefully the original one still in a box somewhere) and start over. Leaking around the banjo is not a reason to replace it.
     
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  17. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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  18. deja vu

    deja vu New Member

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    Before the bourbon on Sunday, I ordered the two seals (the one for the piston and the one that rides against the clutch rod) and a new bleed nipple.

    Today, I pulled off the slave cylinder and the installation on my part was, in a word, wrong. Somehow I had managed to install the piston into the slave cylinder 180 degrees out (what was supposed to be out was in, including the spring). A puff of compressed air and the piston was out - the seal appeared none the worse for the wear. I'm glad I didn't bend the clutch rod against the smooth surface on the inside of the piston - perhaps the spring helped keep it in place. After closely inspecting the piston, I reinstalled it correctly - keeping in mind this thing is less than two months old, and I proceeded to bleed the system and...

    Nothing - no pressure - an issue I've been fighting. I pulled out the MityVac and tried to pressurize/bleed and nothing - no pressure. For some strange reason, it dawned on me to change the bleed valve and this time install a turn and a half of fuel resistant teflon tape. After connecting and pressurizing the MitiVac to about 10 psi, I opened the nipple then closed it and PRESTO! There was tremendous pressure in the system!

    I turned on the bike and slipped it into gear (while on the stand) and hit the rear brake after squeezing the clutch and the engine stayed on - I found the problem.

    Next steps for the bike:
    • Replace the rear tire (with the undersized one I bought) - the belts are visible on the current tire - scary
    • Replace the front tire with a new one when it arrives on Monday
    • Replace the four turn signals - they're drooping badly - I have these on hand
    • Change the oil and filter - I have this on hand
    • Reattach the left grip to the end - should probably pick up some Hondabond 4

    After this, it'll be a few "debugging" rides locally before the first trip to the mountains. Everything on the bike seems to work, including brake lights, turn signals. A previous owner had installed a toggle switch on the left fairing tray - presumably to shut off the fan at red lights. Maybe this made the cuffs on their jeans hot (back in the '80s)...haven't decided yet what to do this this...
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  19. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    Good job.

    The switch is more than likely to turn ON the fan before the thermo switch decides it's time (which is usually pretty high on the temp gauge). It's a nice feature, all of my bikes have it.

    Do yourself a favor and wire in a parallel switch for the Fuel Cut Relay. It WILL save your ass one day.
     
  20. squirrelman#1

    squirrelman#1 New Member

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    ^^^^ a necessity
     
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