Braking power...should I improve a 4th gen or get a 5th

Discussion in '3rd & 4th Generation 1990-1997' started by Zarcone, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. Zarcone

    Zarcone New Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I'm new to the forum and to VFR's. I've had quite a few bike in the last 45 years and a friend gave me his VFR. HE wanted a good home for his 125k 4th gen. I have clearly los decades with BMW's...good bikes but very expensive to maintain gas guzzlers. I've never had something so sweet to drive and so reliable...and with character when need...and the SOUND!
    Well, getting to the point. I'm changing the rear wheel to a 5.5 5th gen. Bought one for 130 bucks. I have heated grips, gear information (a little window where you can see what gear you are on), and raised handle bars. The bit has a little vibe in front brakes when going slow, but for the rest it's perfect.

    What are the usual improvements (don't want to go faster) done to this jewel...I suppose not many but I'm always doing things to my bikes so, better ask than being sorry. My main worry is how to improve braking. I'm used to BMW hydraulic GS and that's braking power!!!! My VFR isn't in the same league.

    Prices are really low here in Spain, so I'm probably buying a low mileage one just in case.

    I had a bad accident last year and my wife is pestering me with ABS and better brakes. I broke my wrist, among other things, and I don't have the strength I used to have when braking....and I've seen that the VFR800 has ABS and a dual braking system. Is it good? I've seen low milage 800 for 2500 bucks...
     
  2. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    12,796
    Likes Received:
    935
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Chilliwack, BC Canada
    Map
    I seemed to have lost a bit in my understanding of what you said there. You have an older VFR which used to belong to your friend, or are about to buy a newer VFR and asking us what to look for.

    In any event, don't concern yourself too much about the mileage except to use high mileage as a bargaining tool to get your best price when buying. Mine has over 220,000 km on it now. The biggest issue I have had was a hard to diagnose problem when taking off in first gear when cold. It is in the shop now and the issue has been determined to be the clutch. I need a total rebuild of the clutch. This is the first time this bike has had any work done on the clutch. I have owned this thing since new.

    My brakes do not seem to be as good as they used to be, but they still work well. I can't compare them with a BMW or any other bike for that matter because I have not ridden them enough to compare. But I know this. I have anti lock and linked brakes. I believe these two featured is what allowed me to avoid running right over a friend who went down after hitting a deer two weekends ago. He was hurt bad enough with the collision with the deer. I think it would have been a far worse ending had I hit him as well. So I highly recommend ABS and Lined brakes for sure.

    Welcome to the forum. BTW. You are still a young one. I am 64. Another8 months or so and I will be a senior citizen.
     
  3. bk94si

    bk94si Insider

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Maybe you could re-route the brake lines to put the foot brake to the front? Stainless braided brake lines for sure.
     
  4. Zarcone

    Zarcone New Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Clarification: I have a VFR750 4th. I'm keeping it forever. I already have metal lined brake connections, but not linked brakes. nor ABS, and that's why I'm also considering buying a used 800iVTEC because they have told me that the brakes are much better than those of the 750 4th. I guess , by your response, that I should buy me a 800 with ABS .
     
    34468 Randy likes this.
  5. Zarcone

    Zarcone New Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I have stainless braided lines...but, as I also ride other bikes, it will be hard to get accustomed to use the right foot to brake with the front wheels...and If I use the front handlebar brake entering a curve...and its a bit wet I'll lose the rear.....
     
  6. mello dude

    mello dude Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,555
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Map
    Hi
    You know going to a wider 5th gen wheel will make turning slower? -- Anyhoo, for the 4th gen brakes you could go to the VTR1000 forks. Then there are many Honda caliper options to get the brakes where you want them... RC51/954/F4i (US nomenclature)

    Honda linked brake system is very good although, some people are fans and some are not. I am in the not category. I striped the system out and went to a standard setup with RC51 brakes.
     
  7. Zarcone

    Zarcone New Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Thank you for your response! Yes, turning will be slower but more rubber on the ground when braking and I don't go to fast...VTR1000 forks seems a good idea expect that I can get a VFR800 for 2.5k...and if it breaks better han the 4th gen and has ABS, it would be perfect. I'm not a good mechanic !
     
  8. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

    Country:
    France
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    French Alps & London
    Map
    Hi Zarcone - welcome to the Madhouse.:Welcome:

    When you get time please swing by the "introductions" part of the site and say Hi to the rest of the folks on here and perhaps post up a photo or two of your 750 - just click the "upload a file" link below and follow the prompts.

    As for the options - as Mello says some like ABS linked brakes others don't.

    I definitely vote for linked ABS as the kit on my 6th Gen has already saved me from a head on. - I was riding swiftly on a road I know well - its a fast flowing road with a short kink between two short straights. As I came round the corner I was greeted by the sight of van on my side of the road overtaking a slowly moving car/caravan - survival response kicked in and I grabbed a handful of front brake and somehow managed to change course enough to squeeze through the tiny gap between the van and steep hillside. On my old Suzuki it would have been a 90kph head on for sure! After I pulled up I was shaking for a few minutes and when I looked back and I could see neither vehicle had stopped.

    The thinking behind the linked system is that Honda carried out extensive accident data research to figure out what they could do to avoid or at least minimise injuries during accidents. What they discovered was that (just like me) in a real "oh sh1t" moment most riders completely forget about they have a rear brake and just monster the front - so once that front wheel locks up completely you quickly pass through "stoppie" mode to airborne "high side" missile - which is not ideal especially if the bike then lands on top of you. Hence the Honda linked braking system is basically designed to improve panic braking as far as possible.

    Yes - non-ABS linked brakes are of course favoured by track aces like Rossi and Marquez - but they don't have to contend with road riding risks like idiots coming in the opposite direction on your side of the road or people just pulling across in front of you - SMIDSY.

    When it was released the Honda linked ABS was extensively tested by Honda and loads of very experienced riders who could not out-brake the linked ABS models when riding basically similar bikes without the linked ABS - check out YouTube videos (the system on the Fireblade is basically the same).

    They basically show that in panic braking mode, the system was able to deliver virtually everything possible by way of stopping that the tyres will deliver whilst also giving you the chance to possibly steer your way out of trouble.

    Fancy software has been since been developed meaning that by the time they produced the 8th Gen 800s with ABS they could use electronic inputs to achieve similar results without the weight and complex plumbing of the 6th Gen system. It was also a lot cheaper to make - so no surprise that physically "linked" brakes have now been superseded by a computer chip constantly monitoring inputs from your ABS sensors and brake lever pressure inputs.

    If you have the option of riding a Bike with ABS then it just could save your life.

    Take Care - ATGATT



    SkiMad
     
    squirrelman#1 likes this.
  9. Zarcone

    Zarcone New Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
     
  10. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    12,796
    Likes Received:
    935
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Chilliwack, BC Canada
    Map
    Thanks Zarcone. It is clearer to me now. There should be lots of good 6th gen VFRs out there at good prices. If you get one with relatively low mileage and has been garage kept, ridden only in summer months, you should not need to be replacing the brake lines yet. But if you do, I think I would at least be looking at braided lines. I can't say anything one way or the other based on experience, but I have confidence in several here who will say you do get better braking with them.

    A complete brake jog on mine is the next thing to deal with. I will look very closely at the lines to see what shape they are in, but I am thinking, I will replace them as well as the front rotors, maybe rears too. Mine has been ridden in almost severe weather through the years, even caught in snow (Now that scared the shit out of me and it was dumped just as I was pulling into a parking lot to park it for the day). I do think if I do replace the lines, they will be with braided lines. Maybe a bit of a needless expense on a bike with my mileage, but what the hell.
     
  11. 91cb-1

    91cb-1 New Member

    Country:
    Ireland
    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hi, I only recently have bought a 4th gen to replace my 3rd gen stolen 3 years ago. I have a Blackbird as my current run around. This was the bike they developed their linked system for. There is a lot of science behind it and people swear by it. Having used it, it works really well and I've often slowed down to a stop just using the foot break with both hands on the tank. That said They are a bitch to bleed and if not bled properly are worse than bad brakes. The system is really heavy, uninstalling it was a fuckin pain so I can only imagine installing one on a bike not designed with the linked system in mind will be even harder. I had to cut one of the lines in order to completely remove it. I would advise to get HEL or similar braided brake lines, a MC and caliper rebuild kit and use HH sintered pads. As with anything 20+ years old a face lift can make a huge difference without breaking your heart.
     
  12. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Insider

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    385
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    London
    Map
    au contraire, that ship has sailed - you are officially old already...lol
     
  13. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    12,796
    Likes Received:
    935
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Chilliwack, BC Canada
    Map
    Show me precedence or statutory authority to back that up. Canadian. If you please. And none of that British Common Law shit either. LOL
     
    Diving Pete likes this.
  14. Zarcone

    Zarcone New Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Sage reply! I have just found a 2005 5th gen that looks great, but has a Fu%%%% piston. I'm thinking It would be easier to buy this one and repair (sell for 1000 bucks) that to start to manipulate the 4th gen braking system....I'm looking for the same 5th gen motor from an accident to do a swap. I can do that but getting into adapting a braking system seems a delicate matter....
     
  15. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

    Country:
    New Zealand
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,938
    Likes Received:
    250
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Map
    Just FYI, you're talking about a 6G from 2002 to about 2012. The 5G was the last of the gear-driven cam models and ran between 98 and 01.
     
  16. Zarcone

    Zarcone New Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    That's bad news! I would like to keep the gear driven cam and also hace an ABS ...but its not viable. I believe the 5g doesn't have ABS. I suppose then that a logic alternative would be to keep my 4th gen and get a CB1000F ....man what a bummer!
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019 at 4:19 AM
Related Topics

Share This Page