Countershaft seal replacement on a VF500F

Thanks for the post.

Grade 5 may be the ticket but I think that there is a bit more to this.

I did write to All Balls awhile back when I found out that they do not manufacture their bearings in the States.

The tech wrote that they use ABEC 3 level precision bearings with a QE6 rating. The QE6 rating, from what I understand, is an electric motor test that qualifies the bearing for use at 5,000-7,000 rpm.

I guess the take away here is that if I was investing the time to split the engine cases to replace a countershaft bearing I would triple check the specs to ensure I was installing a bearing that would meet or exceed OEM. Simply going to a bearing store and saying 'match this' would keep me up at night.

 

When I say"match up" that does not mean you just put them side by side.
"Match up" means the proper bearing is selected for the job with all considerations taken into account.

BTW a plain bearing or bushing will go to 5,000 rpm.
You have to consider the continuous duty rpm.

Good bearing supply houses tell you all of the specs on the bearing if you ask.
Temp ratings lubrication info everything.

 

Do not forget that on the CB450 Honda that the cam chain must be adjusted to have the slack taken out BEFORE adjusting the valves. I was a HONDA mechanic on those bikes.
Same goes for the CB350 etc.,.
Once you adjust the cam chain tensioner the bike will be much quieter at idle.

 

Cool great info on the CB450!...i luv that bike...and may re-do the valve per your info.

On my VF500, I found a local industrial bearing supply house that willing to work with me and I plan on disassebly the counter shaft and bringing down to them. However, honestly, I'm starting to waver...this is a used countershaft assembly on ebay with a good bearing...as far as i can tell for communicating with the seller via email...its expensive, but probably not much more considering I need my Honda shop to press the current bearing on and off...they have already quoted my $75 labor...plus they want new circlips....soooo

I am stubborn (n cheap enough) to check out what these bearing peeps can do for me...I'm gettn kinda of tired of tracking this down but still...not ready to concede...thanks for the help...will keep all posted....doing miscellaneous cleaning on the engine till i can move forward.

Also, sent my old rear head gasket to Cometic (invisible, you had asked where I am having this made)...I received the NOS front head gasket in the mail yesterday, about the same cost has having a new one made...so we are moving forward!...well, metaphorically still.

 

Thanks for the post. If I could ask, what material is the Cometic gasket made from? Thx!

 

I described the make up of the old gasket and they said they thought their's was similar and are measuring the thickness.

Think I might make an offer on the old countershaft...this bearing stuff is a bear.

 

Good deal on the head gasket. As long as it isn't copper and matches OEM specs you should be fine.

If I could ask, did you check with David Silver Spares regarding a new bearing or perhaps even a complete countershaft assembly?

Keep us posted.

 

Nope...don't know David...but perhaps I should?...cuz I'm almost ready to order this ebay thing but would wait if a better source becomes available...thanks!

 

David Silver Spares is one of my go to sources for hard to find, NLA, parts. They are located in the UK.

Here is the link:

David Silver Spares - HOME

 

Don't buy that Ebay countershaft.
Don't take apart YOUR countershaft assy.

Just go get a steering wheel puller at NAPA auto and pull that bearing off.
It will not take much effort to get that off.
That bearing was just slid onto that shaft. It was not pressed onto the shaft.
Almost any mechanic shop can pull that bearing off for you.
A lot less expensive that buying that Ebay part.

Don't jump from the frying pan into the fire for gods sake.

BTW...That CB450 crank must be in the correct position when you loosen the nut to get the slack out of the cam chain. READ THE BOOK!!
You have a rare bike and a valuable bike.

 

Brief update before I head out of town...crankcases are spanking clean thanks to scotchbrite sanding papers and lots of seafoam. Tranny just about ready to slip in and looks in very good shape (new seal is on the used countershaft...sorry those who voted against this method...u r not the only one who doesn't want this to bite me in the arse but the bearing feels/sound very smooth)....waiting on the new rear head gasket but almost ready to start reassembly. I sprayed out the camshaftoil holes and all oil pathways and orifices in the crankcase.

...will keep u posted and add pics soon

 

Yeah back from vacation and I find my replacement head gasket in the mail and it look great!...can't believe how closely it resembles the original which they also sent back.

I need to clean the shift drum and thats it before i begin reassembly...yikes, that sounds scary already...hopefully will have time this week to begin work.

 

Photos please.

 

Pics aren't the greatest tonight..but here's what i got...the new an old cylinder gaskets side by side (new one on the bottom):


and then the new one alone/closer:


...the clean upper crankcase:


...and a blurry pic of the lower crankcase:


I moved the shift drum into neutral...which is not necesarily an easy thing to figure out...damn long time to find the neutral switch protruding into the shift drum area...then a simple matter to turn the the shift till you see it engage the switch.

Also greased up the main bearing journals with moly grease (Honda moly 6..molybdenum disulfide grease).

And tomorrow, i forget i still have pick up the bearing set ring at the dealer...must be y I got that message from them while on vacation.

I'll take more pics as I start closing this patient up...wish me luck...ttyl

 

Quick update...still waiting on the bearing set ring apparently on the slow boat from Japan....but I really think these delays are sometimes a blessing in disguise. It really give you time to review everything and for me, right now where i am at on this bike, it has allowed me time to really study the movement of the gears and the shift forks. Fitting the shift forks onto the transmission shafts was tricky business on my CB750 and seems to be even trickier here.

Remember, the top half of the crankcase is now on the bottom with the cases split waiting for reassembly...so the bottom half, gets reassembled on top. The bottom half contains the shift drums and shift forks...the top half (now on the bottom) has the transmission shaft. The middle shift for is reassembled onto the main shaft, while the left and right shift forks will slip onto the countershaft...hopefully.

What i learned through my dry runs is that the metal cam chain guide at the front of the bottom crankcased likes to interfere with the whole process...so you can't just focus on the back where the transmission and shift forks are. First as you lower the bottom half of the crankcase (now on top) down onto the the top half (now on the bottom) is getting the long black plastic cam chain slipper through the front cylinder head and then the metal cam chain guide properly positioned so it will allow the back half of the bottom case to be lowered onto the transmission shaft...now remember...as you do this, you need to make sure the shift forks are being placed onto the correct shafts/gears. One advantage you have, is with the oil pan off, you can see right through the bottom (now on top) of the crankcase into the transmission area. As noted in both the FSM and clymers, you first have to position the gears on the both the main and countershaft into the nuetral position...basically this where the gear dogs are not engaged with the neighbor gears...that takes care of the top half (now on bottom)...then, you must also have the shift drum in neutral and supposedly, the shift forks engaged in their proper slots on the shift drum. Well, everytime i do this (position the forks in the shift drum) and then flip the bottom half over to place on the top half, the shift forks fall out of place...my recommendation, after you understand where the shift fork tabs belong on the shift drum, flip the lower half like you are going to place it on the top half for reassembly, then, look through the empty oil pan area, reach under and readjust the positioning of the forks. As you lower the bottom half onto the top, watch and redirect the forks with her hand which is reaching underneath while the other one is holding and positioning the crankcase...i find grabbing the oil pump a nice handle...then lower and watch...you can the move the shift drum while turn the shafts to make sure its all working as its supposed to...so cool.

Now the clymers suggests that the locating dowel be positioned in the bottom (now on top) cranckcase...I do think this is easier...but getting the dowel out of the upper cranckcase where it was stuck was a bitch. Be careful not to try and pull it out to hard with pliers as you can change the shape of the dowel and then its harder to get it to fit into the round hole....try hitting out for underneath as you have access cause the case is split!...yeah.

Also, lubricate the shft forks, drum and gears before doing any of this....and mono disulfide grease on spots as indicated in the fsm.

Okay!?...miscellaneous cleaning till that part arrives...hope this helps...ron.

 

Good intel Ron. I think this rebuild would be a great candidate for an instructional video!

 

Okay, the halves are now together (picks pending)...I had a panic though...as I was tightening all crankcase bolts to specs, I thought I broke one of the smaller, 6mm bolts off into the upper crankcase and panic ensued. In the end, the bolt was not broken but needed to be replaced...also use a slightly longer one as their was plenty of room in the cavity and seemed to grip better...could have just had the bolt not aligned properly and screwed up an internal thread...either way, all is well and was able to tighten to spec...getting pretty good with a torque wrench!

Oil pan is now back on...and then cylinder heads and then probably the trickest part...re-installation of cam shafts, cam sprockets, etc...another 2 page long process as listed in the FSM...wish my luck...will post a few pics soon.

 

Just a reminder:

Prelube bearings, crank or whatever else your manuel may call for duing reassembly so you don't gull anything on its first start up.

BZ

 

Yep...being oiling and applying mono disulfide whatever grease to all points indicated in the good book...which sadly i nearly have memorized

 

Good deal, Ron.

Glad to hear no major bears have been encountered. Looking forward to seeing the progress photos.