Electrical Issues - Doesn't Seem to be Reg/Rec

Looking for input here, ever since I’ve bought my 2002 it’s had issues where the battery seems to discharge when not running. I thought that I was victim to the notorious regulator/rectifier issue, but after doing the leakage test, I’m dropping about 30mA or so whether the reg is plugged in or not. Also, the diode tests all pass. Also tested the stator just for kicks and continuities are as they should be between windings and no shorts to ground. I have installed a voltmeter and during normal driving it reads anywhere from 13.1V to 13.9V, maybe a little low, but definitely not enough that I'll be losing charge. None of my connections are burnt or hot looking even, so at this point the charging system all seems fine.
I see the service manual says if the charge leakage fails and the regulator is okay that the next culprit to check is the ignition switch. I have noticed that when I’ve had issues getting the bike to start it normally turns over a couple seconds and then dies, in fact dies as in my clock resets and everything. Not sure on the bike but in a car if the battery doesn’t have enough to crank, it just clicks as the solenoid pulls in, but it doesn’t kill the clock and everything.
Has anyone had experience with the ignition switch failing? Are these typical symptoms for ignition switch failure? And any suggestions on testing the switch? Also, I don’t have HISS if that plays into things.
I've had these issues ever since I bought the bike a few years back, so the first thing I did was replace the battery, didn't make any difference. Also, obviously with that current draw if I leave the bike for a week or so it's stone dead.
The main thing that finally kicked me out of my laziness in actually dealing with this, is the other day I was out for a 20 min ride, highway and town traffic, stopped shut the bike off for about 5 minutes and it wouldn't start. Turned over maybe once, and click dead clock, everything. Try again, battery has no juice to turn it over. I was able to bump start the bike and drive her home, but it should take next to nothing to start a hot bike. So I'm genuinely confused as to what may be the issue. Ignition switch sounds semi reasonable, but wanted other feedback.

 

Have you had the battery load tested or tried another battery to repeat symptoms or highlight the battery as the suspect?

 

I have not, but only because I replaced the battery right when I bought the bike and I've had the same issues (more or less) since day one and haven't changed anything regarding parts or wiring, so with that and the current leakage at about 30mA, I assume the battery - while it may not be in great shape at this point, isn't the root cause of the issue.

 

It is up to you to assume or to know. Many have hunted all kind of symptoms to find the battery is at fault. I've had multiple new batteries which were bad right out of the gate. It is simple to test and to rule in/out. Something to consider.

 

Hook up your multi meter between the negative battery post and the negative cable. Start pulling fuses one at a time until you see the draw go away. That will help narrow down where it's coming from. I went through this on my van and the ignition switch was part of the problem, but as of yet haven't been able to find the rest of the draw as it shows O amps right now, but the battery still goes dead. Has to be something that is energized when I drive it, but then drops out when I pull the cable to check.

 

I am reasonably sure that you can disassemble the ignition switch without too much effort. There are rotating contacts in there with grease, maybe you have some debris in there that is causing a little leakage? Jethro's fuse-pulling strategy is a great suggestion to narrow this down.

 

Fuse pulling, absolutely great suggestion. Kind of embarrassed I didn't think of it myself... Will let folks now what I find, whether they want to know or not.

 

just be sure to check the charging system output when you get it running. you could try disconnecting one battery terminal when you're not riding.

 

30ma current leakage is way too high, shouldn't be more than 2.5ma.
Another simple test you could try is to measure the voltage on each fuse. With Ignition to OFF you should Only measure 12v on the Clock Fuse, all other fuses should have zero volts - Note on top of each fuse are tiny metal test points probe these. If you do measure a voltage then this might lead to an issue within the Ignition Switch or some other strange partial short!

Do you have any additional wiring or accessories on your bike?

 

So, opened the fuse boxes, and with the key out of the ignition the clock and both the front and rear ABS fuses still have 12VDC. I'm assuming the ABS fuses should be 0V without the key in. Tried pulling the fuses and it made no difference to the current draw, so wherever it's happening it's prior to the fuse box. I'll have to do some more digging tomorrow.

 

Ah, I didn't realize your bike has ABS. So YES the two ABS fuses in fuse Box B Will be powered all the time and have 12v on them.
So only the two ABS fuses and Clock fuse will have 12v with Ignition to Off all others should read zero volts.

So with these three unswitched fuses removed are you still seeing the 30ma current leakage?

While measuring the 30ma leakage, what happens if you pull one at a time Main Fuse A 30amp then Main Fuse B 30amp?

 

More precisely speaking, the voltage you read should be darn close to the actual battery voltage, whatever that is.... in good condition, 12.8 is a fully charged battery at rest....

 

I see that you are from Canada, where ?
I'm in Guelph, Ontario and also have a 2002. If you are close you can compare your bike to mine. I just did my stator and regulator.
Also, did you have the wiring recall taken care of? I took mine in a few years ago and they replaced all of the wiring harnesses.

 

Out on Vancouver Island, so only a short bike trip away... As for the recall, I'm not sure if it's been done, I've only had the bike a few years so it would have been done under the previous owner, if at all.

 

Sorry I only just read this thread after returning to the Alps after 3 weeks riding over in the UK.

It strikes me that the final sentence of your first post in this thread appears to describe the classic "charging system gremlins" which have affected so many 6th Gen and earlier VFRs.

So before spending time pulling fuses to test for possible electrical drains, I really hope you completed "the drill".

Whilst I see you mention doing some tests - did you do "the Drill tests" TWICE? Once with the bike cold and then repeating those tests straight after taking it for a decent fast run by which time the engine and charging system components really hot.

Sadly components like diodes in the RR and insulation on electrical windings in the stator can break-down when hot and instead of charging can then start to drain the battery instead of charging it.

Inherently the charging system(Battery, RR, Stator and Loom) on your VFR should be looked at as a "system" rather than individual components, as a fault in any one component can damage some or all of the others.

As you have already replaced the battery and RR, personally I would now consider a making a more direct check of the stator - namely to open the stator housing cover and take a look inside. If you are greeted by the smell of burnt electrical windings or the sight of crispy fried windings then you have found your problem and it is time to fit a replacement stator. If not that quick check has only cost you a stator housing gasket and a bit of time to rule it out, before diving into pulling fuses and hunting down loom faults.

If you really want to know more then this 21 page thread will show you why you are not alone.

https://vfrworld.com/threads/how-to-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.39277/


Good luck let us know how you get on.



SkiMad

 

??? He has the R/R unplugged and he is still seeing a 30ma leakage current draw. That completely isolates the charging system from causing the excessive leakage current.
He states - "after doing the leakage test, I’m dropping about 30mA or so whether the reg is plugged in or not."

 

No, I have not the full suite of "The Drill" tests, I assumed starting with the leakage would point me in the right direction. I am getting around 27mA with the R/R unplugged, so I would think that should eliminate that as the cause - at least as the cause of the current leakage. However, I did some more digging last night, I pulled the main fuse and the 30A feeding the ignition switch, but I'm still getting about 24.5mA or so of drain (which accounts for the 2.5mA from the clock I supose).

Screenshot 2023-05-25 075218 by neldom posted May 25, 2023 at 7:53 AM

As well, I did find one of the contacts on the starter relay was a bit corroded and obviously heated up way too much, not catastrophic failure yet, but definitely a weak spot. I am going to clean that up put on some dielectric grease and go from there.

IMG_3289 by neldom posted May 25, 2023 at 7:54 AM

But admittedly, I am baffled at the continued current drain, I'm not sure what other circuits are still in the system with those fuses pulled. Maybe I need to start going through the drill anyway...

 

If you have the R/R unplugged and Both Main Fuse A and Main Fuse B removed, it seems almost impossible you could have any current leakage!

You didn't answer this before, so once Again.............Do you have any non genuine wiring, accessories etc wired directly to the battery?

That Red wire in the Starter Relay Plug which goes to Main Fuse A 30amp definetly needs some attention. Instead of dielectric grease suggest using OxGard.

 

Yes, as it turns out, my own stupidity is part of the issue here. I completely forgot my voltmeter/usb charger is wired directly to the battery. It has an on/off switch, but it's a soft switch so it defaults back to on every time I completely disconnect power and reconnect ie. when I am doing the leakage test. So with it off and all fuses in place, after cleaning up the corroded connection on the starter relay, I am getting around 7mA. Which is reasonable I believe, and shouldn't drain my battery too quickly when the bike isn't running.
I am getting my battery load tested today, as I'm sure I've deep cycled it too many times at this point and it's likely pooched.
However, with the corrosion cleaned up I was seeing 14.1 volts on the voltmeter when just running in the garage. I've never seen above 13.9V before, so either way that connection being cleaned up and fixed is a good thing. I do have a replacement connector on the way as well.

 

Glad you are making some progress, I would contact the dealer and see about the wiring recall anyway. If it hasn't been done as I recall they automatically replace the main harness and the rest if necessary. That way you can at least start with a new harness.
The island is but a short trip from Ontario, I might cruise over this afternoon after work for a coffee at Tims...