False, false neutral between 5th and 6th, anyone?

I haven't noticed it, but I did have one heck of a time trying to get it out of neutral and into first from a rolling (neutral) stop. Anyone had this encounter?

 

Wow! I'm sorry, but I have to mention

I'm stunned if ya'll are cornering and concerned about this 1200 not standing you up out of a turn in 5th/6th gear...? Ya'll doing like 120 in a turn? I'm so lost...

I guess i just need a 1200?:tongue:

 

I've gotten used to finding the big N seems like I use a slightly lighter, half tap, down from 2nd or up from 1st.

 

Didn't you realize that we are all insane? :crazy::crazy::crazy:

 

I have just had my first service. The bike is now playing up when selecting gears. Going down to second from third. It just gives me a ' - ' . I was pulling in the clutch and then letting it out to try and get it to move....finally went, but made a awful noise. I will see how it goes. Looks like it may need better oil from the posts above. Bloody Honda dealer putting in piss poor oil.

 

I don't know guys. I am not a VFR1200 hater as I expect to be buying one down the road, but I think there is a bigger problem here. I have owned many street bikes over the last 20 years and none of them had tranny quirks that magically disappeared just by using a better oil. The oil that comes with the bike has to be up to Honda specs right from the factory. I'm still waiting to see if Honda issues a service bulletin on this or if the problem goes away or gets better once you guys start getting some real miles on your bikes. Time will tell.

 

Yea I dont know. All I know is that I put Lucas Syn in it when I got it since it was exactly honda specs. Rode it for 500 miles and it did it alot. Not every single shift but the harder I was riding it, the more it would do it. At the 600 change just used the mobil1 since it was more readily available. It didnt say if it was exact honda specs but I had used it on other bikes and it worked good. 5k miles later and it hasnt done it once. I dont know if that was what fixed the problem but I do know that shifts were more solid the first time I took it out. Now I just do my regular shifts and dont worry about it. Sometimes I get pretty sloppy/lazy and still dont have a problem.
Not saying that this will fix anybodys problem. Just saying what fixed mine. I know that if somebody told me that oil solved their shift problem I would call BS on them. But MY problem is gone so I dont really care if anybody believes me or not. I will say that it is worth a try since it really doesnt cost alot of bank to try.

 

All this talk about 5th to 6th. Why not just stay off the slab, stick to twisty roads where you never get it out of 3rd gear and RPMs are always 8+K, and then you never have to worry about a false neutral. I can solve all world problems too! :wink:

But seriously - hope you get it figured out.

 

Or you could just wait to 90 to 100 mph and shift into 6th

I installed a pro-factory shift kit many years ago, stiffer spring along with the ball bearing detent arm.

But seriously, just haul arse and snick that lever into sixth and you wont have a problem.

 

You would know best as to whether it fixed your problem and I don't think anyone would question or challenge you on that. It also seems that a number of people are experiencing the same problem. I'm just wondering whether it is a break-in issue versus an oil issue versus a real issue. I've done some searching online and haven't found anything. The only thing I found was the engine recall in Europe due to metal shavings causing engine damage. It looks like in those cases, they were replacing the whole motor. Here's the link:

Honda recalls VFR1200F - | Motorbike reviews | Latest Bike Videos | MCN

 

One more thing about this particular recall. It looks like it is for a very specific production run and NOT a problem that affects all 1200s.

 

I went in to my local motorcycle shop today (not a Honda dealer). Explained what is going on and he said it could be the cheap shop oil that they use. As the oil gets hot it may not work as well and it is better to get an upgrade. He also said that I may go through a few oil changes before I find one that really works for this bike. Time to drop this oil and put some fresh in. By the way, I am only finding this problem when the engine is hot and the fan has been kicking in.

 

I've had it happen 3 or 4 times in 18,000 miles. I blame it on not shifting with enough force. I adjusted my shift lever downward about 1 cm, and it hasn't happend since.

 

The U.S. Interceptor 8th gen. has the same issue. To think oil brand is a factor is rather far fetched. The transmission or something else in the motorcycle has a design defect. There, someone said it that's owned three VFR's with the latest being an 8th gen. and the oldest being a 5th gen. Over and out. Honda does what Honda wants or doesn't want to do. Don't keep your fingers crossed.

 

The advice to adjust your gear lever down a bit sounds right to me; you might also look at cleaning and lubing the rose joints at the same time.

You are changing gear by moving the shift lever, and this rotates the shift drum by one position up or down. The shift drum has channels which guide the shift forks from side to side in a preset pattern, and the shift forks are sliding dogs on the side of one gear out of slots on an adjacent gear (e.g. disengaging 5th) and then sliding dogs on a different gear into slots on an adjacent gear ( e.g. engaging 6th). There will be a point in this process where for example neither 5th or 6th is positively engaged, which you have found, and that means you have not been deliberate in moving the gear lever through it's full stroke to positively engage the next gear.

The gearbox is designed to mostly prevent this occurring by use of a star wheel and detente roller, which acts to push the shift drum into an indexed position. The detente wheel is sprung to push down into the valleys of the star wheel. However when the detente wheel sits at the very point of the star, it can't positively move the shift drum into an indexed in-gear position. The engagement faces of the gear dogs are also undercut with a ramp, so that the engine torque acts to pull them into closer engagement with the adjacent gear, which is the reason you have to back off the throttle at the start of the shift.

If you find the gearbox bothersome, I can recommend the installation of the Factory Pro shift kit which replaces the shift star and detente wheel with modified parts, and acts to reduce the false neutrals and make for a more positive shifting experience. I was very pleased with this in my 5th gen.

 

You're welcome. I learned about gearboxes the hard way when my RF900 developed a 2nd gear problem that allowed the dogs to jump out of the slots under hard acceleration, which was really upsetting coming out of bends.



The picture above shows the recessed slots where the gear dogs engage; you can also see the scuffing where the tip of the dogs has dragged across the face of the gear. This gear now lives on my desk as a coaster.



The pic above shows the dogs sticking out of the side of the gear; you can see the wear on the tips of the dogs.



The last picture is a shift fork which reaches into the gears and slides them sideways. The gouging was the result of the gears jumping out of engagement.


This website has a pretty good simple explanation of how all the bits work together:

http://www.justxr.com/jaw/gearbox.html

 

i have had occasion while accelerating that on up shifts i get false from 3 an4 and 5 and 6

 

raise shift points for those gears, use 5 to 6 gears for serious high speed work, ie 100mph at least...hope this helps

 

I've found this same problem of false neutral between 5th and 6th. My bike is 3000km old and it's really pissing me off.
Yes a more positive gear lever action eliminates it but on a brand new bike in this day and age and especially a Honda I honestly expected better.
Unfortunately factory pro don't make a kit for the 1200.
I've fitted a factory pro shift kit to me YZF600R track bike and it is a big improvement for a small outlay.

 

I have a factory pro shit kit on my 91 with 80,000 miles, I dont ride the bike as much as I used to but can tell you that if your aggressive shifting 5 to 6 and have adequate take off in front of you to shift up to 90-100 mph you should be good to go. The shift lever is noticeably firmer than the non-factory pro shift kit 93.

I missed 6 gear on the highway a few weeks ago, I felt in my mind that I should have held it in 5th gear longer (you ride these bikes in 5 gear, nothings going to get hurt.) Any, I accelerated and snicked that sucker into 6 and bam, silence, heard the gear floating around and am cursing in my helmet, I pulled the clutch in and gave a firm boot shift and it went in and off I went. That day coming home, I did some stuff I normally never do. I got out on the highway, got into sixth gear, 100mph or so, then coasted down (no-body wa around me) I downshifted to 5 then to 4. I road the bike up to 8000 or 9000 RPM and shifted to 5 then rolled on some more for the 6 gear. Everything went in without a hitch. That 6 gear is an over drive gear, you gota be "shitting-and-getting." another words hauling arse.

I was thinking about a shift kit for this 93 bike I have but since I have owned it two years and 15,000 miles with zero missed shifts I thought I was doing good. Couple of pit falls when you install the kit, its very well documented on the internet site, there are spring loaded pauls that can be installed up side down and your bike wont shift, you have to remove the water pump which gives me nightmares about radiator fluid leaks.

Just load up the shift lever with your boot, ride the bike up to 9000 RPM and pull the clutch all the way in and shift it into 6. You should be good to go. I think part of the problem is pilot error, you/we are iniating with the clutch and are quick to give it gas before it falls into the appropriate slot, so its not fully engaged/seated. A true flase neutral is betrween 1 and 2/ :vt2:

BTW if you go on other Honda sites, CBR Fireblade doode complain, seems indemic possibly. Just ride it harder and if you got lousy boots, get better ones :loco: enough of my two cents, oh you can modify your shift lever too. eace: