Fuel starvation...or what the he#k?

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by bigoledave, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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  2. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    thanks very much......i am starting today to get the carb unit off..
     
  3. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    I found this "Billy C."carb rebuild service in Texas on another forum.
    Any feedback? It looks like I can send him my 4 carb assembly and for about
    $300 he does a so called "pro rebuild".
    Ok..latest update:
    I removed the carb assembly yesterday. In doing so, I inspected all rubes from tank to carbs..no issues, good tubes..no leaks..etc. I have rebuilt a lot of car, mc and marine carbs in my life....and did take these apart
    two years ago. But, being lazy and retired, I am aga....thinking of my options:
    1) Spend $100 on carb rebuilt kits ( K and S good?), take a day to strip them down, clean with aerosol/small tube car cleaner, re-assemble.erm
    2) I saw some ads on Google for guys(shops?) who proclaim to be carb gurus and have ultrasonic cleaners.
    Cost including shipping seems to be in the $300 area.
    Bottom line....I would save about $200 if I "rebuilt" them myself....but am attracted to the idea of
    the ultrasonic cleaning given the big symptom list my bike has right now. Also, someone who does
    carb rebuilding as a business "should" be more skilled than yours truly in doing a first rate job.
    Comments appreciated,... -Dave *************one other thing....when I pulled the plugs out,
    all four where pretty darn white....and two of them still had shininess on the round exterior
    of the plug tip. I put these plugs in only 10 miles ago but it seems strange the abscence of
    any tan color. Another strange thing is how loose the plugs were ( did I not tighten them
    when I put them in???) Obviously this would be a cause of poor compresion and /or
    poor spark plug grounding. Right now I am going to the simple crank it with no
    plugs in and see what kind of sparks are generated, the truth is I am still not 100 percent
    convinced the symptoms I have are due to carb issues or "electrical-spark".
     
  4. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    Ok..Ok...I will rebuild the carbs...just bought the fancy kit x 4
    K & L Carburetor Repair Kit - 00-2439
     
  5. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    I also have an ultrasonic cleaner, do alot of work from this forum, and my usual carb cleaning rate is between $195- $225 (+any replacement parts needed) +return shipping (about $15-$20).

    2 week turnaround time.

    12-1-17 176.JPG

    >>>>>>>however, the one second burst of full power you mentioned suggests an electrical problem, so check for sparks on every plug lead.<<<<<<<
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  6. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    IMGP6311.JPG IMGP6311.JPG IMGP6311.JPG IMGP6311.JPG IMGP6301.JPG IMGP6311.JPG IMGP6301.JPG IMGP6311.JPG IMGP6301.JPG IMGP6311.JPG IMGP6311.JPG IMGP6311.JPG
    Ya know....all this is not rocket science. An internal combustion engine needs about a ratio of 15 parts air to one part of fuel..right? Having a boring afternoon I finally bit the bullet..gave up all ideas of paying someone out of state $300 to clean my carbs and started work. Before I removes one screw, I did the simple spark gap test..cranking over and seeing the four sparks..and what gap they would span. All four threw massive blue sparks about 1/2 inch. "it's not the ignition dummy".....back to carb culprits. I started removing the bowl covers and was thinking.."duh..ya dummy..I bet this might make it run reeeeeel crappy!" I attached some pics...the fuel pickup brass orifice is TOTALLY plugged by some powdered debris in TWO carbs..the other two are partially blocked. (Gee..I wonder if this affects performance.) I probably could have messed around and got it running OK without buying anything!..but sprung for four carb kits (K -S full kits) as I just saved myself some good dough I could spend on some french good wine to the tune of $300.

    Bottom line..as the bike was mostly sitting for a year or two, I bought some pricey "fuel system cleaners" and added them to a mostly empty fuel tank...with ZERO improvement in how it ran. Then.....................
    Now I see in hindsight that if I had trusted my instincts..realized the carbs were FUBAR and just started work instead of "theorizing" it to death I would be riding today. So..no huge rush..I get the kits in a week or so and will be on the road then. Do I need ultrasonic cleaning? Well I need 85 dollar wines too ...but I bet I can get by with the kits, compressed air and two big cans of spray carb cleaner with those cool small red tubes. ..Cheers
     
  7. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Good work ! avoid getting cleaner spray near the rubber slide diaphragms. lacking ultrasonic, carbs must be cleaned by hand, using green scotchbright or similar and lots of rubbing to remove deposits.
     
  8. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    Mine look awesome on the exterior..the bike is always garaged. I think a brass small wire brush and the spray "Carb Cleaner" will easily remove the strange powdery stuff seen in the fuel bowl. Internally..the carb spray and compressed air will have to do. If I had the interior ultrasonically cleaned I could maybe go 134 instead of 129. Life goes on. Thanks for the comment. -Dave
     
  9. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Insider

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    Well done Dave,

    I disagree - I think you made a smart choice to get the kit..
    With the carbs in that condition, its a wise choice to fix it once !!

    like the pics - they made me laugh....
     
  10. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    I have been traveling ...and now am back to finish re-assembly of my now clean carbs. I used a lot of spray choke cleaner and the K and S wire cleaner set ( very cool) I am pretty confident that all the passages and jets are clean. So..I have reassembled the carb assembly ...but..I am confused over the vacuum cup/spring/cover assembly.

    I see a tapped hole in the outside cover.. in the center ...on the inside. Yes..I do have four screws that fit this hole also, each one identical to the 3 x 4 screws which mount the covers. I am pretty meticulous and am sure I have not lost any parts...but am confused about the tapped hole and the screws I have left over which fit them. I have either lost some parts..or see that the screws go in to the covers and .....act as a "stop" for when the vacuum cup moves??? I am missing something here...... Explanations please? Thanks......Dave
     
  11. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    How about a photo, Dave ????
     
  12. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    Ok.........I figured it out...I made a dumb mistake in counting the screws I got left (!@#%4)
    No problem after all! -Dave
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
    Diving Pete likes this.
  13. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Insider

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    As a FYI, when I strip carbs I put all the parts into individual containers. I label the carbs and tubs with a sharpie and use a digital camera on the taking apart. I generally don't strip them unless I have the rebuild kit available.
     
  14. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    Yep... I do that in general....but when you count four carbs and multiply 4 x 3 and get 8 you get confused.
    I thought I had 4 screws left over ........until I recounted a day later. (Must have been a"senior moment" !!!!)

    By the way, I did not use ANY new parts in my "rebuild". The carbs showed obvious "clogged artery" issues, but the main needle seat and all rubber parts were in excellent condition. So.....my theory is that the engine ran horribly because there was "debris" restricting fluid flow..period. I feel I removed all the debris using spray "choke cleaner" and the K and S wire set tool. The general look of the carbs..interior and exterior look very clean. We will see in a day or two when I fire it up! Thanks for your comments. -Dave
     
  15. unie01

    unie01 New Member

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    subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread[​IMG]
     
  16. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    It has been cold here..the bike is waiting for me to hook up some hoses and fire it up. Carb assy is on.....now I have the big task of getting off my couch and finishing!
     
  17. Jakesmith

    Jakesmith New Member

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    Did you ever get the problem fixed???
    I'm having the same issue on my 2005 fuel injected vfr
     
  18. Jakesmith

    Jakesmith New Member

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    My bike just won't rev over 6k rpm
    Wth!!!
     
  19. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    YEPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally have it purring pretty good. I have been away for a few weeks..but yesterday
    re-hooked up the carb assy to all the cables and tubes. It took quite a lot of force to finally get it seated
    properly....the screws on the rubber tubes were pretty loose....i think I need a bit more rubber lube
    and it may have gone easier. Anyway, I left the top of the airbox off and jury rigged the tank to sit
    on some big rags so I could see the carb throats. Amazingly, it fired up using full choke after only
    a few seconds of ignition/cranking. Got it to idle with no choke in a couple of minutes after warming up.
    Brief throttle whacks sounded pretty good....not perfect..but pretty good. So...conclusions:

    1)n Don't let your bike sit around for months or a year with 10 percent alcohol gas in it. I am going to start using only marine gas I use on my sailboat....zero alcohol.

    2) I did replace the fuel pump with a cheap one I got on Ebay. It was NOT the problem at all I feel.

    3) I had some unrelated battery charge problems also solved by a new rectifier..(yep inexpensive Ebay). This
    solved that issue. I am buying a SPARE to keep with me after being ridiculed about opting for the cheapo unit!

    4) Once the carbs were taken apart..it was verrrry obvious that the whole issue was dried crud deposited in
    most of the jets and orifices. I considered sending them out for ultrasonic cleaning..but they looked excellent
    on the exterior and I felt that with using some K and S wires and two bottles of spray carb cleaner (with the small
    red tubes of course)..I could clean the critical passages.

    5) Sooooooo....I spent about $50 and about 30 hours messing about to get it running pretty darn good. I will
    probably mess with the carb balance too.....but not until I actually ride it hard for a bit to see how it goes..

    Thanks very much for all the suggestions/ideas!!!

    -Dave
     
  20. RllwJoe

    RllwJoe Member

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    Your welcome. I'm feeling good about my instinctive guess in post #2, which I will point out was one of your first guesses also. What happened? Did you have to clean the carbs a second time, or did you not do it before you started this conversation?
     
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