Had to lay the '04 down...

Discussion in 'New Riders' started by ridnout, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. Underoath87

    Underoath87 New Member

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    FYI, you should never "have to" lay a bike down (even though it sounds like you really just dropped it). I know you're new to riding and I'm not trying to rag on you, but it's laughable when guys claim that they laid a bike down on purpose like it's some sort of emergency maneuver. Please don't be one of them.

    It's a much better idea to stay upright, scrub off as much speed as possible and/or dodge the object.

    https://rideapart.com/articles/lay-er

    http://www.claydugas.com/auto-accidents/myth-laying-down-a-motorcycle-to-avoid-injury/

    Also, this thread is a good example of why the VFR is not a good bike for newer riders. It is fairly tall and heavy, so it is unforgiving when making unplanned low-speed maneuvers (i.e. it is hard to catch once you start tipping over).
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  2. ridnout

    ridnout New Member

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    In the defensive driving / safety course, yielding the right of way would have been best, period. I will take pictures of the area and post. After looking at how short the distance was, 20ft to 30ft is way too much. The entire distance from corner of the street to the corner of the turn into the gas station is in my estimation about 100ft or less.

    Laying bike down--> It wasn't just dropped, it slid with me holding the clutch all the way until I had to let it go. It landed on my right leg but just slid on past the corner of the turn-in. I remember having to go about ten or so feet to pick her up with the great fella that helped out. He deserves the credit.

    Yeah poor clutch cover too; but it was already rashed a bit. Anyway, that's an excuse to get one of those window mods!

    Yup, I'm a newbie; and the bike is very TOP heavy with a full tank of gas; and my feet, once the bike is warm, can almost put both heels firmly on the ground--at least one flat and the other on the balls and tip of the other foot.

    The slow speed lock plus him having also to turn again quickly TO DODGE THE PUMPS AND THE BUILDING (again all of forty feet maybe) was unrecoverable. Yup we were parallel at one point. There wasn't any traffic behind me at all, turning or proceeding.

    I've ordered the new mirrors this morning. Anyone need a left mirror? LOL. I'll take a two-parter or just the advanced class and then onto Barber's or somewhere in Memphis to a racing school to learn some advanced techniques.



    Oh yeah, I mentioned that officers don't like that; however, I remember when I did it with a trailer going awry, that the officer only complained because it was a no passing zone. What was the killer is that I wasn't waving at them while inside the truck and trailer were not fully out of the road. I was just concerned that I was holding up so many people who at that time did have a genuine concern. I just wanted to check the riggings, as it was pulling to the left.


    Not to be defensive, but I'm learning alot and quickly, mostly from the guys that own the Kickstand motorcycle shop. He pegged me from the jump saying I'm going to be a racer, track racer, er rather track dayer. Yeah that's more like it.


    Last thing is my location and area within this country which plays a HUGE role in what happened. My best friend intimated that it wasn't poor skill but that when I get off the bike in the _____ anywhere everyone knows I'm happy, truly happy. I can't remember being like this ever. Not a High School Graduation, Prom, Collegiate graduation even the second B.S. in EE last May. He says it was done purposely. I tend to agree because I know the car and the owner. They were talking to me with helmet and bike on with me about to get underway. All I heard was that, "Oh you are a motorcyclist too." I shook my head and didn't hear anything else they were saying once close to the bike. Maybe they took it wrong. I just wanted to get underway.

    On the cam thing, that's a project to integrate into the bike, not a slap on. GoPro's are tooooo expensive for their capabilities. I can whip something together with most not even knowing it's there. We will see, as we've got a more stuff to do.


    I maaaaay post those pictures of me smiling but I might be embarrassed sooooo.


    I thank you all.

    Oh yeah, I was facing the pumps going down or at least got a glimpse for a split-second. THERE IS NO WAY UPON HINDSIGHT it was avoidable. WHY? The VFR's low speed turn radius is just too wide. I'd run into the pumps!
     
  3. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    With a lot more seat time these kinds of incidents will probably not happen to you. Ride safe.
     
  4. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    What causes a get off can be many things. Getting off in itself can effect faulty recapitulation. The old first you're up and then you're down rule.. WTF happened!

    Gator is spot on.. Slamming on the rear binders or even grabbing too big a handful of a front brake at low speeds can put anybody on the pavement (or dirt).
     
  5. redwing750

    redwing750 New Member

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    There is a unique factor regarding the VFR with brake training.

    ABS or not, it does have linked brakes.

    The only other model that has LBS is the Blackbird, that I'm aware of.

    What's my point here?

    There NEEDS TO BE different mental, and physical responses depending
    whether the bike has standard F&R brakes, LBS, or LBS+ABS.

    The reason this is so important, is that NO course will make, or even acknowledge
    the distinctions between standard and linked. My guess is maybe 10% of instructors
    would even be aware such a thing exists! Even then those instructors may not
    see the need to cover the differences.

    I switch between my 03 VFR and my 79 CB750F fairly often, and after getting the
    VFR I have had to become innately aware which bike I'm on, because my reaction
    will need to be mentally pre-mapped.

    Much like driving a manual vs automatic trans, those adapted to automatics
    will not remember to de-clutch in a panic stop. Those adapted to a clutch will be pushing air with
    the left foot under the same circumstances...

    So when riding a standard-braked bike you should be thinking, how much pressure, and to which wheel?

    With LBS, how much BIAS, front vs rear, do I need in a given situation, and pressure as well.

    Likewise training for ABS will also differ.

    I really thought it should be addressed here :)
     
  6. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    Good post Redwing. My VFR was the first bike I had with linked brakes and the first time I was riding it in the mountain twisties I became aware quickly what not only linked brakes do but also how it has a lot of heavy engine braking. I was getting the rear all pissed off and moving around. lol
     
  7. redwing750

    redwing750 New Member

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    I tend to get the tailend very light on both bikes, rearsteer FTW!
     
  8. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    LOL, on my CBR I know what to expect with the rear very light or even off the ground, the VFR...... not so much. The linked brake thing............ I like it for just riding around town but for a more spirited pace, not so much.
     
  9. redwing750

    redwing750 New Member

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    I posted a wordy reply over here, have a look- http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/49686-Cameras?p=504500&viewfull=1#post504500
     
  10. ridnout

    ridnout New Member

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    No BS with that about the linked brakes and engine braking. I was discussing that with the owner of the Kickstand just today! I told him my experience. There were others around too. Get this --> VFR owners!!!!! They praised the bike and were like, "You have two?!". Ummm, yup, an '04 and a '99. One for me and one for my girl.

    I love the engine braking, period. Yes, I too have felt that destabilization of the rear end under a complete close of the throttle. What I've found is that it is worse when you are in a lower gear than necessary. Chris eluded to the same concerning my experience. I now hurry up in speed from 1st skipping second and on up as quickly as possible (maybe double upshifting here or there) to get into gas saver and also so that I don't get that destabilization decelerating from high speeds and maintain smooth shifting. Kinda like a Vette with the second gear lockout thingy. Remember, I love engine braking. I rely less on the brakes but have to be wooooofully mindful of its effects.

    Thanks a bunch for that tidbit.

    Hey, in my quest to get the permit, LBS and conventional brakes were mentioned but weren't tested, at least on my test. It stops before the end of the test if you've attained the proper score. Now here's the rub. The 5th and 6th gen, at least mine, are soooo different when it comes to their LBS systems. The rear brake is much more of a vice on the 6th gen versus the 5th gen. I did some looking around and verified the bias was changed and too that the system was a revamped.

    However, the one resounding thing that comes to mind when I purchased the bike is that regardless new or old, "Get to know this bike, not another bike", resounds Hunter. Hmmm, come to think of it, the 5th gen's tail is more stable under engine braking for the same conditions IIRC.

    I didn't know this thread would continue to develop; however, I'm grateful, as after every ride I learn something. It's comforting to know I'm transferring my research skills to everything including riding and more so that I'm not dreaming up these scenarios. I'm really learning and communicating with others what I'm observing. That's a confidence builder for sure!

    I'm going to take what experienced riders, here and there, plus a bit of my own wizardry to be a SAFE defensive rider. I'll save the OTHER for a track day.

    Dang nabbit, I've been searching for a reason to use that eyebrow emoticon and can't locate it. Shoot.
     
  11. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    I remember reading somewhere about being able to reprogram or via a piggy back unit, change engine braking. I would like to have a lot less myself. Funny thing when I ride my RD 350 it's 2 stroke engine has almost no engine braking and has caught me by surprise if I have not been on it for a while.
     
  12. redwing750

    redwing750 New Member

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    That's surprising, and good to hear.

    Perhaps my guesstimate was on the low side, although I'd still assume that knowledge to be in the minority even for an instructor.
     
  13. Superskip

    Superskip New Member

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    Dayum, you guys make this sound so complicated like a bunch of scientists, lol. Just hit the dam car and get the other party involved, their insurance. And the vfr is a pig for new riders, not prudent.
     
  14. Alaskan

    Alaskan Member

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    I always expect the worst out of every single driver on the road and in parking lots. Now I have to expect the worst in gas stations too!

    Welcome to the Drop Club.
     
  15. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    About a year and half ago I had a fawn jump out from the side of the road, no time to hit brakes but instinctively shut the throttle. I was sure I was going to hit it, I even screamed in my helmet, but it came out the other side unscathed. Engine braking works. Yesterday, a hippy type woman in a Prius made a sudden U-turn in front of me. She pulled over to the right, I moved out to pass her, the without signaling turned left into a pull out on the other side of the road. Totally oblivious, and I had been behind her for some time. Luckily I slowed enough to yell at her.
     
  16. sunofwolf

    sunofwolf New Member

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    That's what I said, if the car is totally wrong-better to crash a bit-just not too hard then buy a 2014 vfr or later with the dough:twitch:
     
  17. duccmann

    duccmann Member

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    Sorry about the mishap bud, experience is the only thing that helps, all good advice except from SOW, never listen to that inexperienced cat humper
     
  18. fatbastard

    fatbastard New Member

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    With the exception of the 8th Gen. One of the reasons I bought it is that they canned the Linked brakes. I've never had a bike with linked brakes and don't have an opinion on whether they're better or worse, but they are different. I would normally have bought second hand, but when I realized that the new model had standard brakes with ABS I went for a 2014 plate new one. Still dearer than a used one, but not as hideously expensive. So that's one thing I don't have to adjust to.
     
  19. sunofwolf

    sunofwolf New Member

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    Duccman is just a spoiled BB humper
     
  20. Alaskan

    Alaskan Member

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    At 4 mph it doesn't make any difference whether the brakes are inliked or not.






    .
     
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