How far can you lean before you lose traction?

Much happier eating bugs than pavement.

 

Well I'm done feeding the troll boys, good luck!

 

Yeah, there is a troll of the week somewhere in this thread.

 

I feel bad for Microwaveable, all he wanted was to share a video and create a thread for discussion of traction limits...

I probably shouldn't have responded as much as I did, so sorry Microwaveable, I should have known better. If it's any consolation, it was a good topic for discussion, even if there are those who felt the video was boring.

Cheers!

 

Yeah, sorry for the cluster F in the thread.
We all want good traction no matter the circumstances.

 

Maybe we should refer to him as SOW NO?


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At least SOW was amusing at times.

 

BB2

 

And would most likely get the remark about being a World Champion.

 

Funniest quote of the day.

 

lol he does drone on and on...

 

I can understand that. I was not that interested in street riding in the states unless I was out on a trip. its just boring. Since I moved to New Zealand though the road are completely different to ANY thing I rode in the states or Canada or Europe. You gotta be involved and alert 110% of the time. I ride the same roads over and over quite frequently but I dont get bored nearly as much riding here.

 

BTW, the Dunlop Q4 will out-lean the VFR regardless of mods done to it.

https://www.cycleworld.com/dunlops-new-q4-trackday-tires-make-it-easier-to-get-your-knee-down#page-3

 

You gotta be involved and alert 110% of the time.

What a remark
SMH.
Isn’t that the norm?




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Cat0020 lost all his credibility with me right when he said this.

"In regard of brake usage, I never use brakes unless I have to, engine brake is plenty for most situation I encounter in my commute in NYC.
In case of emergency situation, my first reaction is look for a way around instead of grabbing a fist full of brakes." Wisdom that was learned from three decades of bicycle riding apparently.

Bicycles are not motorcycles. A good bicycle can be picked up off the ground with your pinky finger. Try that with a VFR and then tell me all about how your decades of bicycling has taught you so much about momentum. On the road, on a motorcycle, if you aren't scrubbing off speed when you see a hazard, then you're living on borrowed time. You need to be setting up the brakes, compressing the suspension and transferring weight onto your front tyre to get maximum traction because the car that you want to go around, just might move. Maybe you can go around the hazard, but you're not likely to pull off a tight swerve at high speed on a wet road. That second and a half where you recognised a hazard, looked for a way around it, worked out that there wasn't one, or realised your gap had closed after you started your swerve, probably cost you any chance of a successful emergency stop. I'm not any sort of high performance rider, but this is a lesson I learned early and it has saved my bacon more often than I care to remember. Not to mention that if he's grabbing a fist full of brakes, he's doing that wrong anyway.

 

I thought I would add something I've noticed last long trip with mates.
My mate and I have a very similar riding style and speed.
He rides a 2005 Black Bird, I ride a 5G.
We both put on a set of new Rosso III's before our last trip to Phillip Island for the WSBK.
On the way there we rode the Bonang, a superb bit of road with 145km of 35 to 45kmh bends, narrow and no shoulder and practically no straights.
I was up his arse the whole way riding at a good pace, even with a bit of rear wheel spin now and then.
At the end he didn't have any chicken strips, I had 5mm.
Some of the turns were long 180° sweepers, and we had the same speed in every bend.
The geometry and weight of both bikes is very similar, well mine is lighter after the weight loss program I guess, but not a huge difference.
So you can lean more, or less at the same speed for the same bend. It must be down to style.

PS: I agree with the comment above about riding trying to avoid things, if you don't cover and set up for braking, you will sooner or later run out of all other options.

 

"looking for a way around" is not limited to doing a tight swerve or brake, go off-pavement if you have smooth grass to scrub off speed without brakes.

Looking for a way around is always the first reaction to avoid impact, because using the brakes always limits the control, traction you have available to your motorcycle or bicycle.

Setting up the brakes, compressing suspension all occurs after you've applied the brakes when you've already committed to your direction of travel.

 

As an agree to disagree thing this is fine on bikes but on a motorcycle the speeds are far higher. The reason I mention this is that it's speed differential that hurts and bikes crumple zones are usually the rider. This is why going to the brakes first may get the speed to a point where you are not going to the ER even if you have a bike to repair. BUT that's experience for you to decide when this course of action is best.

 

The constantly contentious responses here resonate strongly of the fellow who generated many pages of posts while attempting to unleash the factory power Honda hid in his 5th gen. Could be the same person - the individual who platforms on a supportive, educational forum, but has nothing to learn from any thoughtfully offered, experience-based suggestions or observations. Or maybe all trolls communicate with the same diction, attitude, and obstinance.

 

Assumption is the mother of all fk-ups.
At least I don't reduce myself to name calling or assume anything about any of you personally, unless you've stated something about yourself first.

As if my post do not offer something to learn from?

As if majority of riders on this forum participate in track riding to enhance their riding skills?

As if majority of riding skills are learned and practiced on the track only?

Rider learn most from experience that one practices day to day, not few times a month.

Most riders can find an empty parking lot and practice moto gymkhana skills that test the limits of lean and traction without the expenses of track lessons/riding, excess speed that require excessive braking, extra wear and tear on the consumables and bike itself, risk of excessive damage to the bike if you lose control at higher speeds.
Moto gymkhana skills can be practiced with minimal braking, the smoother you are with your throttle control the less you need to use brakes.

Personally, 2-wheel vehicles behaves mostly the same; physics don't change whether motorized or human powered.

Scrubbing off speed does not necessarily require using the brakes, simply let off the throttle can scrub off speed.
If you need to grab a full fist of brakes when you see a hazard; likely you have not been paying enough attention.

I never claim that my methods are the only methods that one should practice, I never claim that you shouldn't try improving your skills on the track with some pros watch your every move and tell you what you did wrong.
But reality is, most of us on this forum are not that well off to participate in such events.
Most just want to practice their riding skill from their driveway without transporting their bike to a track to use most of our time and hard earned $$.
Personally, large empty parking lots with nicely paved surfaces are easy to find and time it correctly, you can easily have a safe space that have no other vehicles to test how far you can lean before you lose traction.