I'm Really Disappointed At Honda.

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by OCLandspeeder, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    It's not a big secret among my friends that I've been shopping for a new bike for a while. I've done a lot of soul searching as to what bike will make me happy for years to come. I've also gone on a few test rides. I've come to the conclusion that I am a sport rider & commuter. I need to stop pretending to be anything but that! I'm happiest when I'm riding a comfortable sport bike. So I want a sport bike that is comfortable, has a fairing for wind protection, and can do it all: commute, sport ride, tour, can carry a medium tank bag and tail bag (no saddlebags), more power than my VFR800, lighter than my VFR, has a fairing like my VFR, reliable like my VFR, looks great (to me) like my VFR, has modern up to date features, and under $15k.

    Well gentlemen, there are ONLY three models that meet this criteria: Suzuki GSX-S1000f, the Kawasaki Ninja 1000, and the Ducati Super Sport (base model). Where is Honda here? Nowhere to be found it seems because I am NOT going to buy another VFR800 that doesn't improve on what I have, and Honda is no longer making it! Why Honda? Why did you guys abandon this market niche while others are still in the game?

    I'm not wild about the Suzuki's looks. Looks like a big scooter. The hardware meets most of my criteria for performance but leaves a few things to be desired. It is the most high performance of the three. But the looks.....I'm trying to like it. Test rode one. It was FAAAaast! It was lightweight like a sport bike. Instrument cluster looked cheap. No LED headlights. This is 2018 and going on 2019 Suzuki WTF?

    I love the Ducati's looks. It's fast enough and sounds magnificent! It's beautiful all around. I almost bought this one. But they're asking a lot for it and the Kawasaki is right on its heels. Also, instrument cluster looked cheap like the Suzuki. At this price I was expecting a TFT screen. However, I may have to circle back to Ducati simply because I can't get over its lusty body.

    I still need to test ride the Kawasaki Ninja 1000. But I've seen it, sat on it, drooled over it. This is the bike that comes closest to the "VFR1000" that I've been waiting years for. This bike has all the electronics of the Ducati, but is more bike than the Suzuki and way more power than the Ducati. Unfortunately, it's also much heavier than the Duc and the Suzuki. Still....it's 100% up to date including LED headlights, IMU directed rider assistance, adjustable windscreen, lots of wind protection, fully adjustable suspension, 125 rwhp and 75 ft. lbs. of torque. And it looks aggressive as hell especially in black. Finally, Kawasaki hasn't relegated the Ninja 1000 in the back burner. Instead, they updated it in 2017. Talk about faith in this market niche! Why didn't Honda make a VFR like this? I would have signed on the dotted line last year if they did!

    In 2019 Honda is going to give us: the CBR650R & CB650F. Beautiful bikes. But not a VFR replacement. the new CB1000R is more naked than Porny Daniels when she was making her movies. And I do NOT want an ADV bike. Been there done that not into it any longer. I feel that Honda has abandoned riders like me.
     
  2. fink

    fink Insider

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    Honda is still making the vfr. Not exporting it to the USA.
     
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  3. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    I will only offer this, based upon my one personal experience with Ducati and a Hypermotard SP - buyer beware with the Ducati. If you really dig deep and look around, they aren't exactly up to the standards that one should expect for paying the "Ducati" premium. However, this is ONLY my experience. Many people are diehards. Like the saying goes: Own a single Ducati - Ducatisti, Own multiple Ducati's - Mechanic.

    I feel for ya, there really isn't much out there that blows wind up the skirt, so to speak ;-). I will say this, the manufacturers have painted everybody into a corner with what they are offering. It is almost like they are forcing you to buy multiple motorcycles to exactly fit the various types of riding, the VFR the closest to being the swiss army knife of any of them. But it is not perfect either. The only advice I can offer is this: do not compromise, it will only lead to heartache and frustration. You need to ask yourself: can I really get what I want for $15k? That is the million doallar question. Best of luck, it isn't gonna be easy.
     
  4. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    The 8th Generation VFR800's closest competitor in price and content is the Ducati SS, yet the Ducati is faster because it is a lot lighter and has more torque and a bit more top end power. Honda is asking buyers like me to ignore the power and weight deficit at the same price point. I did see two NEW 2015 VFR800's at my dealership and the bikes were heavily discounted to a mere $8k. I was tempted for a moment but I would only be buying the bike on price alone. I wanted something that was more exciting than my current VFR800 so thank goodness I didn't let my guard down and sign on the dotted line!
     
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  5. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    Yes I agree with what you said regarding backing customers into the respective classes to encourage multiple bike purchases. I also agree I do NOT want to compromise any longer and this is why it has taken me a while to come to terms. The Suzuki is 90% of what I want. Missing a good instrument cluster and a quickshifter, and a sexy body. The performance is 100% there. The Ducati is 80% of the performance, available with a quickshifter. The looks is 100% there. Reliability is a definite concern. The Kawasaki is very, VERY close in checking all the boxes, except weight. Still, lighter than my VFR800 by a good 20 lbs. and it makes up for it with A LOT more power than the Ducati. 25 rwhp is something I can't "fix" with an exhaust and tune.
     
  6. bk94si

    bk94si Insider

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    I know it doesn't have a full fairing but FZ-09's are supposed to be pretty nice.
     
  7. VFR4Lee

    VFR4Lee Member

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    The newer Ducatis have longer service intervals than the older ones, and are supposed to be more reliable. I have a 2014 Monster 1200, valves checks are every 18,000 miles. Claimed weight with all fluids is 460 pounds, HP and torque are much higher than the VFR. The price on the Termignoni exhaust is insane, but the stock pipes sound good to me. :italy:
     
  8. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    I test rode a Triumph 765R. Fantastic machine. FAST! Light, very light. QuickShifter and Ohlins was icing on the cake. I took it on the freeway, and immediately knew it wasn't for me. The naked bike windblast is not something I've learned to cope with before and now. The one I test rode had a small screen also and it put the wind right underneath my helmet so it was noisy. At speeds above 85 the wind pressure on my chest started to bug me. So no naked bikes. Just doesn't fit my style even though I do like their looks. Holding on tight at the handlebars at higher speeds is tiring.
     
  9. Viffer J

    Viffer J New Member

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    The Ninja 1000, especially the 2017+, checks all the boxes, I was almost about to buy one and what stopped me was the insurance rates on it. I recommend checking your insurance rates first, I was shocked at what they quoted me, and I have a clean record. Good luck with your hunt, keep us posted on what you go with, I'm always looking for new bikes, just habit.
     
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  10. Bat-1

    Bat-1 New Member

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    Anytime a bike checks multiple boxes compromises were made. I've found that owning multiple bikes is the only way around it :High5:

    And now that I have three I find myself riding a lot more, as in every day weather permits.

    It's just fun to pick from multiple options.

    Modern bikes (at least non-Italians ones) are amazingly robust and cheap on the secondary market. I'm on the hook for just over $8k for all three.

    08 VFR800
    11 CBR600rr
    08 Buell 1125r
     
  11. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    You're "collection" is VERY similar to mine at one time. I also had an '08 Buell 1125R for many years. I replaced that with a '15 CBR600RR. I also currently have a '07 VFR800, plus a '17 Suzuki DR650 dual sport.

    I ride A LOT. Every day in fact. But I ride my VFR800 the most because it's just comfortable and high performance enough for everything I do. Commuting, sport-riding, running errands, and if I'm lucky to have time, a 3-day tour. I find that with 3 bikes at least one bike sits and is not ridden most of the time. For me it's the CBR600RR because this bike just hurts my knees after an hour. I thought about getting lower footpegs for it but instead decided to sell it to get maximum value for it while it's still low miles and in good shape. I like my DR650 but it really isn't a great highway bike. It does it fine...but I'm just unable to get rid of the wind blast without getting a big windscreen that creates too much noise. And I'm always looking for more power than it can deliver. Where I live, I have no choice but to ride on a lot of highway to get anywhere.

    So I've come full circle on sticking with a VFR-like bike. I would be pretty happy with a newer, faster, do it all sport bike and keep my '07 VFR800 for commuting duties. This bike has 60k miles so it's not worth much in the used bike market and even worst at trade in. I was quoted $1.5k for trade in with a big disclaimer that maybe they will give me this much spiel because the bike has a lot of miles and is 11 years old.....I was disappointed. The bike is worth more to me at this point. Ironically, it was the Honda dealer who wanted to unload their 2015 VFR800's for $8k+ Tax/license who was eager to take mine on trade. This would have been the super deal of the decade if I went for it. But my heart said no to another VFR800.
     
  12. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    I heard about this. I will check with my insurance company to see how much they will ream me for the Ninja 1000. It's that damn "Ninja" name that kills it.
     
  13. John carnahan

    John carnahan New Member

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    FWIW Erie who just started writing bike insurance was going to "review" the policy on my 91 VFR because it was "Hi-performance". I have the cars and house with Erie so I thought I'd switch. I have the SV with Progressive, went with them and no issue and only $26 extra for the 2nd bike thru next July. So I don't know if there is a difference between companies. I know they reamed me for the GSXR1000 14 years ago. Almost $3000 and I was 58.

    I'd like 3 bikes. First a real SUPER bike, 2nd maybe a FJR13oo and 3rd some kind of naked nasty thing.....

    I laughed at the comment about naked over 85..... I made a similar statement probably 15 years ago to a non biker who replied, who would care, the speed limit is 70 max... I replied that our normal "cruise" speed was 85 minimum...I had really fallen into bad company when I got the GSXR

    That said. One bike? I think I'd be quite happy with a newer VFR800?
     
  14. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    A little more in depth info on Ducati:

    1.) the ECU's are basically locked up from the factory, due to Euro 4 and 5 emissions criteria. It is a complete fuckfest to try to find anybody who can do real time dyno tuning and even folks like AMS Ducati in Dallas think it's a waste of time to even attempt it. You could get a standard reflash from Rexxer, again not worth it IMO. There is a guy here that was shilling for RapidBike, but they don't sell the race module for them, only the Evo and I haven't heard very good things about them in general.

    2.) You ABSOLUTELY cannot get a factory service manual for them. Ducati does not allow the release of the service manual, it is all online based, and you have to be a certified Duc mechanic with a personal password to even access the site....and it can only be done at the dealer.

    3.) If you even touch the piece of shit, your warranty is voided. There are no OBD's on the market that will plug into the maintenance port to turn off the service interval light, so every fucking time the wrench light illuminates, you have to take it to the dealer to get it turned off. Ducati is worse than Microsoft and W10, and that's really saying something.

    4.) Because you can't get a tune, only the Termi kit with their proprietary upmap key is an option for exhaust, at the low Ducati price of 3 grand and I believe the SS full exhaust was even more than that. My experience, with that - complete waste of time and money.

    5.) Reliability is more than just suspect. I only put 680 miles on my Hyper because I ended up disliking it that much and I didn't want it to grenade before I could rid myself of it.. I just made the payments until I could afford to get rid of it for top dollar due to the mods and the super low mileage. The Hyper and the SS share the same 939 (in name alone) testastretta lump and crap electronics.

    So there is my assessment of Ducati, granted, I had a Hypermotard, but they are the same engine, the same build quality, the same ECU, the same issues. I really, really wanted to like it....however, I failed miserably. A lot of it could just be me, hell I dunno and at this point, I really don't care. It's not sitting in my garage taunting me with how bad my decision making was to buy it.
     
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  15. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    Norcalboy, THANK YOU for the honest information that I never would have known unless I bought the Ducati.

    It really is THAT BAD? Damn! Basically, Ducati OWNS you. You don't own the bike, you just ride it and take the depreciation hit.

    My KTM dealership told me that KTM had a similar lockdown on their bike's ECU. Not sure if this is the same with servicing the bike.

    The Kawasaki is now in the #1 spot. LOL!
     
  16. Samuel

    Samuel Member

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    If only A&A were still making superchargers! :(
     
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  17. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    I live in California, the land of the freeways and yuppies in a hurry. 80-85 mph is minimum safe speed on a motorcycle. I've tried doing 75. It's damn dangerous with people cutting in front of me. No thank you. I don't even go with the flow but slightly faster to avoid riding next to any car.

    One bike only: VFR is great for that I know. So is a Kawasaki Ninja 650 or a Honda CBR650f. LOL! I'm serious. Those are "VFR-light" type bikes. Do it all sport bikes under $9k. The N650 is under $8k.
     
  18. VFR4Lee

    VFR4Lee Member

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  19. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    seems amazing to me (at 75 yo) that any sensible street rider would would want more power than a VFR provides. :rolleyes:
     
  20. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Member

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    I’m with you Landspeeder, the VFR is a great do it all bike, but is in bad need of an extra 20hp or losing 40kg.
    I recently borrowed my mates 675R Street Triple for a 100km ride on one of my favorite windy roads. 10 minutes in and I was loughing like a maniac, that motor and chassis leaves the VFR to shame.
    But I couldn’t stand the wind on my head, it was tiring, I must admit to being nowhere near the speed limit (below it of course), but for a short ride it seriously is intoxicating.
    I also think the Ninja 1000 is a great buy, only if it was lighter.
    I’ve stared looking at a 765R for next year, with a custom bikini fairing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
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