I'm Really Disappointed At Honda.

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by OCLandspeeder, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Member

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    I did as well and went this way because of the same reason. $145 a month I will not do.
     
  2. Nelix

    Nelix New Member

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    Insurance for me is $140 pa, fully comprehensive.
     
  3. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Member

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    What is you deductible and your coverage. 250/500/1000 etc.
     
  4. Nelix

    Nelix New Member

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    Think it is $250 Bubba. This is on a Z1000SX.
     
  5. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Member

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    So when you say "pa' does that mean "per annual" ? I was quoted $145 U.S. a month with a $500 deductible. Meaning $1740 a year with a high deductible. I would have paid for the bike in a 4yr-5yr span just with insurance. I could not justify paying $18,500 for that bike in 5yrs. with a clean record.

    I pay $36 a month with a $250 deductible meaning I pay $432 a year for better coverage and a lower deductible on the VFR.
    U.S insurance in crazy expensive on a liter inline because so many are out there with high school kids killing themselves on them.
    Shit if I got a speeding ticket it would jump up to around $180 a month as long as I was financing it. I have 2yrs left and then I will see what comes along since the bike cannot be sold for what it is worth. The upside is that last time I checked my insurance will pay more for what I owe if the bike is totaled. Not saying I want that but it is good to know that at least they go of MSRP for the model year and have no Idea that I payed $4,500 less at the time.
     
  6. Nelix

    Nelix New Member

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    Yes Bubba, that is for the year.
     
  7. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    That statement makes zero sense.
     
  8. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Member

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    Agreed and I am corrected on "high School kids killing themselves" I should say younger unexperienced riders and maybe not killing but in a hospital in a coma. Thank you Norcalboy.

    But what I meant was that Insurance cost is based on risk factors. Vehicle claims to the companies make the basis of the quotes to re-coup costs. Liter in-line sport bikes have a greater amount of horsepower. Sport bikes are marketed to a younger base of riders for the most part. Bikes are purchased by younger inexperienced or first time riders to impress. They make up most of the deaths and accidents on U.S. roads and greater costs to the Insurance companies, so they pass them down to every rider looking at those models. I mean we all know that risk is equated to cost in the minds of the number crunchers. My agent at State Farm told me outright that because the Z1000 is a inline with over 120hp even though it was tuned down it still carried the Ninja vin and they pay a higher percentage in claims and bigger amounts for this bike and others like it. He told me the that it was because of the younger riders. My 30 yrs on the road and a clean record for 20yrs did not matter. They could not go lower than $145 and others like Progressive told me the same and where higher.
     
  9. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Member

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    Shit! I want to live by you so I could have the bike I wanted all along.;-) Just kidding sort of. I am happy with what I have and so be it. And they stopped the killer red scheme in 2010 anyway!;-)
     
  10. Nelix

    Nelix New Member

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    Ah, but the green is superb.

    Even when I had a ZX10R Ninja insurance was under $200pa.
     
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  11. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    The MSRP of the machine has a lot to do with it too. In the US there is a mentality, it goes by the phrase "size matters". When it comes to moto's, it's the ego that gets you killed, not the machine. The insurance companies all know that there is less than 1% of the global population that is actually capable of utilizing machines of this capacity. You can count on the fact that they have more than enough data to determine which capacity classes and types of machines end up costing them the most. You aren't paying for yourself, you're paying for past claims, and the claims that are coming. It's all in the numbers.
     
  12. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Member

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    The MSRP is a factor that I left out and I think that we both have stated some of the same things in different or clearer verbiage. Sucks all the same for us!;-) I think IMO that in the information that Nelix gave about his coverage is that other countries have a greater amount of the population riding 2 wheels as primary transport vs. the U.S. which bikes are for most the most part a recreation vehicle. Possibly greater distribution of cost recovery resulting in lower premiums? Oh well. It is what it is in the U.S. I have a VFR until I die or win the Lotto, ok until I die!;-)
     
  13. Nelix

    Nelix New Member

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    Bubba, my insurance covers pleasure riding only, not commuting. Though it would not cost much to add it is simply not worth my while riding to and from work.
     
  14. cayman

    cayman New Member

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    I agree, except a few things. First, sub-$15k for a relatively niche high-end bike is not a profitable price point anymore. Demographics and economics cannot be ignored. The only way Honda can deliver the current VFR at the retail price it does is because it carries over the expensive tried-and-true hardware with little change. If you want an all-new motorcycle with lightweight space age tech every 5 years, its going to cost BMW and Ducati prices or more. Second, none of the bikes you list are midweight street bikes. If you want liter+ power, then you're in a different class of motorbike and in many jurisdictions, the increase in insurance rates is significant. If you want a 300 pound liter class V4 carbon fiber racebike for the street, what handy features of the VFR would be left? The VFR is a wide-appeal machine, don't pretend that Honda can ever point-design it just for your needs. You have to turn to the aftermarket for that.

    Moreover, the assertion that the 2014 VFR isn't an improvement over all previous VFR750-800 models is only on opinion. I don't know why Americans expect every generation to offer 20% more everything. I realize in carland that the era of cheap gasoline has enabled some manufacturers to bore out their engines so you can buy a 700hp cage at your local dealer tomorrow. With a few exceptions (Corvette C8), those muscle cars actually can't put down the power. The electronic nannies that keep you out of the ditch restrict the car from ever delivering more than a few hundred horses on the street. You paid for bragging rights and a super heavy muscle car and got ... a fat old S-Class Mercedes chassis with an ugly Dodge body that drinks gasoline and smokes tires. A Honda Civic Type R will beat you around Nurburgring. So what do you really want? If you want a taut everyday sports tourer that you can live with in all conditions, then neither the Boy Racer nor the Flabby Big Muscle Car is your ride. Look at what Lexus, BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Porsche, etc are doing. VFR sophistication, zero attempt to have top HP bragging rights, unflappable performance and comfort in all conditions. But they don't give them away -- engineering refinement costs money. Some vocal Americans refuse to pay for it. Well, I can't help you. If you want a cheap powerful liter bike, buy the Suzi or the Kaw and be happy.

    Honda did what they could in the wake of the nasty 2008 economic crash. There wasn't budget for all-new engines and chassis. The advances today are in higher torque instead of top end power, improved emissions, fuel economy, suspension, dashboard, lower maintenance, better luggage integration, more creature features like heated handgrips. The 8th generation VFR is significantly better in all those areas than older Hondas and also the newer similarly priced competition, by the way.

    That said, there is a glimmer of hope that a large step change is coming. Honda has been dominating the tracks with the RC213 and now that they have gotten through other massive launches (Goldwing), as well as Euro5 emissions developments across the entire range, it is highly likely that a new V4 streetbike with VFR polish and versatility will be offered in the next year or two. I hope that a midweight model is offered, but it's anyone's guess. Maybe it will be a $20k RVF1000 model instead.
     
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  15. VFR1200

    VFR1200 New Member

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    I completely disagree. Honda is losing long time customers over this.

    I bought my first Honda at 16. I am now in my 40's and apart from a short blip when I owned a Kawasaki AR125 at 17, I have only had Honda's.

    Their design has gone away from what I think a lot of Honda riders love, as well as the model line up, that makes it a Honda and are turning us off.

    I have had the CB1000R, two in fact, yet the new one is hideous. Instead I am now seriously looking at getting the Triumph Speed Triple.

    I have owned 3x VFR 800 (2002 -2009). I then bought a VFR1200, I loved it, I just struggled with the fuel range. I live in Canada and when gas stations are spread out, or don't carry high grade gas, I was getting desperate on a few occasions. In the end I bought a 2015 VFR 800. I didn't like it. Felt and looked like a CBR300. I bought a VFR1200X, not a nice bike, to top heavy for my riding style.....

    After a long look for the right bike, I am now back on a 2007 Honda VFR800 that I bought in 2018.

    Many parts for Honda's are used across the board to keep costs down, a new model can be the same. They had a good bike in the VFR1200, it just needed the one change and that was the gas tank. It's build quality, shaft drive, ride and handling was what VFR owners were looking for. Yes the luggage was small, but there is aftermarket ( I use SHAD on my current one, is better than GIVI or OEM had bags). Honda missed the boat by not fixing the gas tank issue and moving that bike forward. Instead they dropped it and went back to the old VFR800 and tweaked that.

    Honda needs to go back to their grass roots or they will lose customers. New bikes will not be sold as we will start looking for the old stock and riding that again. I ride a bike for the fun, thrill, enjoyment, grin and having a bike that feels good beneath me and is Honda reliability. Honda seems to be going away from that, even their CBR1000RR isn't competitive anymore....

    They really have lost the plot from when they used to be the leader of the pack.
     
  16. James Bond

    James Bond Member

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    After owning a 5th and 6th gen., and now an 8th gen. VFR, the useable torque changes with the 8th gen. are amazing. This bike seems to almost not care what gear it's in when just going down a road at anything but very low speeds then you just drop a gear. In mountain twisties, the low end torque is a game changer. You don't need to keep the RPM's up in twisties nearly much as past VFR's. It just "torques" it's way around the turns but I like to have my power up in the form of RPM's in case needed and to power out of a slide if needed. As far as top end, who cares what it is? I can't see it being any slower rolling on the throttle in 6th gear up over 130 being any slower than any other generation and in fact, it may be quicker to whatever it's top end may be. Anyone really need to go that fast or is it just a "dick" thing?
     
  17. Wxduff

    Wxduff New Member

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    First post here, I've truly enjoyed reading this thread. Just bought a 2014 Interceptor with 6k miles. My second bike, replacing the beat up Sv650S I learned on.

    I chose the VFR because I was looking for a sporty bike that was comfortable to live with, affordable to maintain and insure, and could be pressed into touring and commuting duties. I was looking at the vfr, the cbr650, the Ninja 650. The cbr was a nice bike but the v4 is what won me over on the interceptor.

    To comment on some of the topics running through this thread:

    People have been talking about how Honda is losing base with some of the new models. I'm guessing they don't care. I'm sure that hurts to hear but it's the truth. Everyone has seen what Harley has had happen. Their base is aging and their numbers are plummeting. They have finally tried to right the ship with the limewire and moving production of some bikes overseas. Their base is ticked off about it but it's what they needed to do to survive.

    On the rise of naked machines, I don't get it, but it's the flavor of the day. I'm guessing Yamaha probably sold more fz-07s to under 40 riders than any of their other bikes to over 40 riders. Those are the riders that will keep them in business. Same goes for kawi with N bikes. I commend Honda for the cb650 as it's a good looking bike for the naked class, and comes with an i4. They just didn't market it enough and the press seems to laud torque in the middleweight category.

    As for the adv bikes, I don't get it either but again, flavor of the day. I have actually seen a lot of the ctx/nc700/750 bikes around as commuters. Also the Africa twin. Suzuki probably sells a lot of vstroms these days. Beemers will always be popular. And those adv bikes make the dealer/manufacturer more money per bike usually.

    I love the bike I just bought already. But most people my age late 20s to early 30s don't. It's unfair to expect Honda to build something that won't sell. The 8th gen vfr was probably a test of the market, it probably was a huge failure in Honda's eyes.
     
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  18. James Bond

    James Bond Member

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    Very eloquently put and I agree mostly. I don't think Honda is coming out with anything revolutionary any time soon, VFR related or not. I suspect Honda is smart enough to see present day HD as a failing miserably because of the generational issue....people with no money that do nothing but suck from other generations. Millennials would rather keep their heads in cell phones and try to continue thinking the rest of the world is going to continue to cater to them. My business will not cater to narcissistic wimps with no social skills that, one on one, or otherwise, I have no desire to mix with. There are exceptions, just not many. They don't have money as a generation because they haven't figured out what "earn it" means yet, therefore, aren't a market for anything costing much money. The only thing Honda can do about that is sell electric bikes and that's a small market not to mention, no other way to put it, a ridiculously un-fun product and poorly thought out market. That doesn't really leave very large markets to sell motorcycles to.
     
  19. Wxduff

    Wxduff New Member

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    As a millennial I think you have us very misunderstood. You say we have no social skills and that we are absorbed in our cell phones. Did you ever think that the cell phone is how we use our social skills? I talk every day with friends from high school and college, find meet up groups for my interests, etc on my phone. Social media is a fantastic way to stay connected with people. It's misused by the older generation for stupid things like politics and bad jokes, but the younger generation does better using it for it's intended purpose.

    As for the younger generation and money and work ethic, you are perpetuating a myth about us. Every generation has hard workers and lazy folks. My wife and I are millennials and we are hard workers. I pick up OT shifts whenever they are free. I moved across the country to get a better salary and opportunity. My wife agreed to come with me having never stepped foot in CA. I only had for my job interview. Most of my friends are the same way. One of my buddies works 70-80 hours a week as a paramedic in inner city Syracuse, ny. He doesn't have to work that much, but he's young and wants the money. I'm not going to type up more examples because I'm typing on the cell phone I'm supposedly "obsessed" with and I'm " too lazy" get off the couch and go to a computer.

    As for the money, you realize the student debt crisis is real right? The boomers all but forced us to go to college, didn't help us pay for it despite making it their priority we go, and refuse to pass legislation that makes it impossible for the banks to bend us over, slap our asses and then proceed to rape us on a monthly basis. My wife went to state school meaning she got the "cheaper" instate tuition. She worked while in school to pay for books and as much of her expenses as possible. She is 30 and still making the equivalent of half a mortgage payment a month. Thank God I had scholarships (from working hard in grade school, you know lazy stuff) and parental support (which I've since replayed, even though I love handouts like you said) otherwise I'd be in the same boat.

    Please don't generalize my generation, or blame them for others failings. I don't blame the boomers for turning this world into the mess it is, don't blame us for how we handle the mess we were given.
     
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  20. James Bond

    James Bond Member

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    You blew right through my sentence...repeat: "There are exceptions, just not many." I do admire your work ethic and willingness to work hard and move to improve yourselves and the world. However, I don't feel sorry for anyone with student debt. This debt was taken on voluntarily then complained about when it came time to repay it. Nobody ever forced anybody to go to college...get real. I paid my entire way through college with zero debt because I worked summers with jobs that paid me for offshore work at very high hourly rates with overtime going with 100+ hour weeks ( nobody "got me" those jobs, I asked for them entirely on my own and if you ask enough, you'll get what you want) as opposed to "paid internships", waiting on tables, and other low paying activities. Internships used to not pay anything at all. Nothing against that kind of work but critical thinking and arithmetic skills will quickly bring one to the conclusion that those kind of jobs won't pay off college debt. I earned every dollar I made the hard way and am very appreciative for what I learned through very hard work.

    Going into debt to go to college is a very bad decision in my opinion. An option to student debt. is to work a couple of years, save money then go to college for a "hard degree" that can be used to gt a decent paying job, as opposed to a "soft degree" such as marketing, psychology, sociology, art, etc. Or, for a male, get to work earning money with very hard work. Hard work never hurt anyone, it just requires....hard work. I graduated with money in the bank because I was willing to work harder than most kids are today, apparently. Nobody feels sorry for whiners and complainers. It's a tough world. Always has been and always will be. There used to be a saying I never hear anymore with changing times. It goes: "When the going gets tough, the tough gets going." Over and out.
     
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