I'm Really Disappointed At Honda.

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by OCLandspeeder, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. bk94si

    bk94si Member

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    No kidding...
     
  2. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Basically that's it, you pay them cubic dollars for the Ducati name, in return they get to tell you what to do with it it, how to do it, and when to do it. My basic standards for quality are probably a little higher than most, boy, I was so far out in the cheap seats I couldn't even see the game. I expected top of the line everything, because I bought the SP with the Ohlins. Worst stock suspension I've ever ridden aggressively on, but again, it was the Hypermotard and they prolly set up the valving specs on some silky smooth race tracks in Europe, no tar snaked, sun baked, rippled asphalt that is typical of the AZ area where I live. I sent the shock and forks to Traxxion Dynamics and they did a full monty revalve, respring, the whole shooting match, no expense spared, still sucked compared to my '06 VFR with 46 HRCLS shock and Traxxion AK-20 cartridges, not even close. I was seriously distraught at this point, as you might imagine. I tried every fucking thing in the book, spun those adjusters until I got an FM radio station in Nogales, MX...no love. This is when I said fuck it and parked it, no more money, no more effort, washed my hands, done, no more Ducati...never rode it again.

    I won't even get into the utterly shit fueling at any RPM below 4500 and laughably shitty "Eyetalian" packaging. But you would never be able to tell UNLESS you worked on it yourself, and I did, fuck your warranty, I have my own money. It was truly horrifying, it couldn't be fixed, no matter how much knowledge or money you had. I doomed myself to failure and didn't even know it.

    I guess my expectations of a $16,000 machine with $8,000 worth of upgrades and mods was a little optimistic. I lost my ass on that piece of shit. It is a lesson that still stings badly to this day, makes me sick to my stomach whenever I think about it...it was like a super hot chick that wouldn't put out, but always ordered off the sex side of the menu.

    My original plan was to get a grey market 2T or RVF400RR...should have done that, but I lost my mind somewhere and blew it. Like you, I wanted a machine, but I didn't want a 580lb machine, didn't even want a 480lb machine. There really was NOTHING out there, not a single thing that really did it for me and I promised myself NO MORE COMPROMISING!. So I sold it at a lower than expected loss, thankfully, licked my wounds and went back to work. On September 16, 2018 a very nice Japanese import RVF400RR showed up at Moto 2 Imports in DC......called that morning, discussed the machine with the owner Tim and dropped the deposit that afternoon. It is now on it's way to becoming the craziest build I've ever done 350 pounds wet and approx 70HP currently. Back to the future, and I couldn't be happier.....however, I still might get him a sexy NSR MC28, TZR 250, or RGV 250 girlfriend to keep him company. These are only going up in value and the RVF will be pristine when I'm done with it, not a cheap project, but nothing good ever is. If I go back to work in January, I will have Tim find me an NSR MC28 SP and then I will tick that box.

    Like I said, I totally and completely feel your pain and frustration with all of the current offerings. If I was going to buy anything new, it would be the R1250RS BMW, but that is outside of your budget. Keep your chin up, don't get discouraged, do your due diligence and you seem substantially more than intelligent enough to get it done so you're happy. Best of luck...again!
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  3. Pbanys1200

    Pbanys1200 New Member

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    Automobile wise Honda only has the NSX and maybe the RLX sport hybrid. They are really wimping out on performance vehicles........:emporer::Bump2:
     
  4. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    I've been searching and searching OZVFR. It is not possible to get lighter than around 470 lbs. wet and get 100+ rwhp, a full fairing, a comfy seating position, decent range, and the ability to carry a reasonably sized tank/tailbag for a few days on the road. To get lighter than 470 lbs, you have to give up engine size/power. The best alternative I found was the Kawasaki Ninja 650. 60+ rwhp, 420 lbs. wet. Full fairing with adjustable, yes adjustable windscreen. The next closest is the Honda CBR650f at 470 lbs. wet and about 75 rwhp. Basically more top end power than the N650.

    I recently test rode the Triumph 765R. Fantastic bike. Exciting as hell! Very light. Tons of grunt AND top end power. TFT instruments. Quick Shifter. Ohlins suspension. Brembo brakes. Sounds fantastic. Everything I want except: naked. It really gets tiring on long distance rides at highway speeds. But on a back road or a short stint on the highway it's an E-Ticket ride to the perfect combination of power, weight, and performance to value ratio.
     
  5. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    I'm not sensible. LOL!
     
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  6. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    That isn't part of this equation, whole different formula. Trust me, I'm the least sensible person here. If anybody wants to wear the crown, you're welcome to it. This site could really use a a double shot of excitement to get it's pulse beating again. Keep up the excellent work!
     
  7. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    Sensibility...hmmmm....so last year I got myself a DR650 to test the dual sport genre. Also, I had thought I would be more sensible on this bike due to its very nature of being mild mannered, practical, simple, easy to own and maintain. It was most definitely all of that and then some. Too much. What did I do? I modified the crap out of is to it was more like a Scrambler/Supermoto hybrid. Made it go faster and better to go farther so I could explore. In the backroads of "old California", where the roads are tight, bumpy, and mostly empty, the DR650 is an awesome weapon and very easy to ride. But every time I ride it I wish I had more power, more revs, more wind protection, more forward riding position. My wife would ask me why I kept riding my old VFR800 even though I have the newer bikes. I couldn't answer her without admitting, I still prefer the VFR (or bikes like it). I love my DR650 and my CBR600RR. But I'm always longing for the VFR's do it all capability along with its sportiness every time. I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm thinking once the dust settles with all this ADV craziness, riders will gravitate back to VFR-like bikes. I believe the tide is slowly turning....
     
  8. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    I looked up this bike online. Definitely a competitor in its segment. However, I'm told BMW bikes are also not easy to service yourself and they make it hard for you to do it yourself. Although you probably still can. But those change engine oil light might still require a special tool that costs $200 or a trip to the dealership for $50.
     
  9. fink

    fink Member

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    R1200rt is a piece of cake to service. Yes you need a tool to reset the service light ( or pay Bmw to reset it) the tool also allow you to do other things like sync the injectors etc so well worth it in the long run.
     
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  10. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    The key to all of this is to do a lot of research, get everything straight, then go to the dealer and put them on the spot, if they can't deliver, or they attempt to explain away your questions with bullshit, just walk away, when they chase you, just politely let them know that they failed the sniff test. Nothing a salesman hates more than somebody that knows their product better than they do and can filter through their bullshit.

    The power of the consumer comes from knowledge, an excellent credit score, prearranged financing through a financial institution of your choice, or dead presidents. They absolutely hate it when you take away their opportunity to make any additional money off of you after the sale. Beware of bogus tire or rim insurance, or even third party extended warranties, it's all one big giant scam. The big pump and dumps will try to weasel this shit into the sales contract and gloss over it, hoping you won't notice you've been conned. I went through it with the Ducati dealer, told him, I'm not signing any of that, tear it up and make it so that it's the exact amount you quoted me for out the door, you have one minute to start over, or I'm leaving. I also told him I didn't need to meet the owner or the service manager, as this will be the last time you ever see me, that was a big turd in his punchbowl.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
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  11. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    I'm not a big fan of BMW styling. The only model they have a like is the S1000R. It's a semi-naked though so I'm not sure how good the wind protection is, if any. I think a test ride is in order. A friend recommended the KTM 1290GT. But that bike is just plain ugly so I'll pass.
     
  12. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    The new boxers are liquid cooled now and most likely as complicated as all hell.
     
  13. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    How about a Tuono? Great light weight sport tour and crazy V4 power. Buy a 2017 and get it cheap.
     
  14. GatorGreg

    GatorGreg Honda Fanboy/LitiGator

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    I'd get the 8th gen Deluxe in pearl white for $8K (motorcycle deal of the century IMO) and call it a day - it has many improvements over 6th gen as seen in vid below. I just rode home from work on mine and had an absolute blast as usual. Good luck in your search.

     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  15. cbx1260cc

    cbx1260cc New Member

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    What about a Kawasaki Z900?? About 465Lbs wet and 100+ RWHP???

    Current discounted price is $7795.00

    Considering one myself. Sure beat out the CB650F--and I'm a HONDA GUY.

    Food for thought.
     
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  16. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Just my personal preference, but I won't buy another sport/supersport/sport touring naked bike. I learned my lesson, extended elevated speeds beat the complete shit out of you and you better be wearing damn good ear plugs or your ears won't stop ringing for two days, and I don't care what kind of helmet you wear. I have 5 different makes of helmet and none of them were substantially better than the rest. Going from a fully faired machine to a naked was quite an unpleasant shock for me. I didn't care for it one bit at speeds above surface street speed. Give me a fairing or give me death!
     
  17. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Member

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    765R Street Triple with Daytona fairing and double bubble screen is what I'm seriously thinking.
     
  18. XRedJar

    XRedJar New Member

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    I was seriously looking at the Ducati SS, but only bought my 8th gen last Feb. Got a "leftover" 2015 at a great price. NorcalBoy, thanks for all the Ducati ownership info!!

    There was talk in a previous post about not being able to unlock a Ducati ECU, does anyone know if that can be done on an 8th gen VFR? I've got a PCV on it now, but with just having the base model, I'm looking at getting some work done in the spring. At least a rework on the forks, but if there are some tuning options.....I'd be interested in those too.
     
  19. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    With the PCV you can do a real time dyno map without any additional hardware, but you can't be running the autotune simultaneously. You disable the autotune, put it on the dyno, and a map is created real time, via a laptop computer and the PC software, which is then downloaded to the PCV module.

    Any reputable DynoJet tuning center can handle this blindfolded. The PCV basically "fools" the ECU into using the downloaded map generated during the dyno tuning session, instead of the stock mapping on the ECU. The ECU does not get changed at all and the PCV can be removed at any point, handing control of the fueling back to the stock ECU. You MUST run o2 sensor eliminators or do your own hokey resistor thing. I highly recommend the o2 eliminators from DJ. I would get bung plugs and just remove the sensors completely from the exhaust and save them, in case, for some bizarre reason, you decide to use the stock ECU again, it's much cleaner. The tuner will also have to disable the PAIR system during the tuning as this causes issues as well. Now as far as the direct application to the 8g VFR, I suggest talking to a reputable tuner and explain what you are trying to accomplish, let them figure it out for you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
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  20. BluRoad

    BluRoad New Member

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    ...am I the only one who thinks your next bike should be a lightly-used VFR1200F?
     
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