melted stator wires

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by mdange2011, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    Thanks Smiley - you've been a huge help, as always. (On a side note, I wonder if this was contributing to my FI codes for my BARO sensor and Speed sensor? I think I'll make this change first before spending my $ on the BARO/MAP sensor).

    I already went and ordered the Ricks R/R and the VFRness. If I'm gonna do it, I might as well do it right. So even though the new VFRness would plug into the new RR, I'm gonna cut and solder.

    Now I just need to learn how to solder...
     
  2. stoshmonster

    stoshmonster New Member

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    As soon as I saw your pics of those melted plug connectors I was thinkin' the exact same thing Pliskin. :high5:

    The VFRness is absolutely as easy to install as Deadsmiley says it is. Piece of cake. Take your time and route the wiring harness sensibly,then wire tie everything off nice and tidy and you're good to go.




    Holy Smokes! Ya know I was just thinkin' if we're not careful here my friend we just might make a mechanic outta you yet! :mech: :lol:
     
  3. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    LOL, thanks Stosh. The problem is that in the good old days, I got fat (Literally and figuratively) and paid everyone to do things for me. Now? Not so much.
     
  4. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    Sorry guys - next set of questions.

    R/R and VFRness ordered.

    I know my stator wires are crispy, and that I'll have to snip off plugs and solder.

    Now with all of the reading I've been doing, I'm wondering if I've done anything to my stator. But I can't figure out if there's a way to test the stator with the bike "as is" - meaning having no R/R on it. I know I'd have to do something as far as getting readings from the yellow wires.

    You all know by now that most monkeys are more mechanically inclined then me. So if there's a way to check this, can you explain it in laymen terms?

    I figure I might as well find out if I toasted my stator as well, since the other parts are ordered.

    Do I have to change the setting on my multi-meter to anything specific, other than when I usually set it a "20" on DCV? This is the meter I have (nothing fancy).

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Deadsmiley

    Deadsmiley Member

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    Your meter will work fine. We aren't looking for very small differences here.

    With the bike OFF, go ahead and cut off the burnt connector for your stator since it's shot anyways. Strip back a bit of the insulation. Set your meter for 200 ohm (it's the horse shoe looking symbol).

    Check resistance between all three yellow wires. Do this 2 wires at a time.
    The reading on your meter should be between 0.1 - 1.0 ohms at around 68 degrees F. Ambient temperature is good for this test. You just don't want to do this test after the bike has been running.

    Check the reading from each of the yellow wires to ground. You should not see any continuity.
     
  6. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    My reading was right at 1. Although the air temp is probably closer to 40. Not sure if that matters.

    I had to press the wires using my fingers. I assume this has no bearing on the reading?

    No readings at all from yellow to ground.

    Safe to assume my stator is ok, I guess.
     
  7. Deadsmiley

    Deadsmiley Member

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    I just checked my bike. My meter reads 0.3 - 0.4 ohms when I check resistance to the yellow stator wires. I have a cheap meter. $10 from Wal-mart.

    Cold isn't really bad. Just don't want it hot from running the motor when you check the resistance of the stator.

    Checking yellow to ground and getting nothing is good. This means that you don't have a short to ground in your stator. Oops, I neglected to check mine.

    AC voltage from stator (with rr Unpluged) at idle should be around 20vac
    AC voltage from stator (with rr unpluged) at 5k rpm should be around 60-70vac

    I just checked mine with my el-cheapo meter and I got 20-21vac at 1500 rpm and 65-67vac at 5,000 rpm.

    If your bike will run you might want to try checking the VAC output between the 3 yellow wires while it's running. Don't use your fingers on this test! :wink:
    Be careful not to short any of the yellow wires to ground while it's running.

    ** Be sure to change your meter to VAC when you test the stator voltage with the bike running. ***
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  8. Deadsmiley

    Deadsmiley Member

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    Forgot to mention, your fingers won't alter the readings on this very small resistance check.
     
  9. stoshmonster

    stoshmonster New Member

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    A smart man immediately says "I don't know". A stupid man fucks with it for an hour,breaks it,then says "I don't know".

    :lol: :rofl: :lol: ^^^^^

    Thanks for the laugh Pliskin. :heh:


    You sound like a smart man to me.

    Like I tell my apprentices at work,relax there's no rush here,just take your time and move at your own pace.

    Once you get past the "alieness" of it all you'll find that troubleshooting and making minor repairs on your bike is really not all that hard.

    In fact I'm betting that once you get your new R/R and VFRness installed you'll prolly look back and laugh at yourself a bit when you find out how easy it really can be. :lever:
     
  10. uberchuckie

    uberchuckie New Member

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    I did the VFRness and Rick's R/R upgrade as well. It's relatively straight forward where the hardest part is placing the new wires so the right fairing will go back on again!

    Another good thing with the upgrade is that it splits the main 30A circuit to two 20A circuits in parallel. It fixed the overcharging problem on my bike as well.
     
  11. Cyborg

    Cyborg New Member

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    I had the same problem with my VFRNess install and solved it but moving the connector bundle forward so it sits between the ECM and the inner panel.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  12. mdange2011

    mdange2011 New Member

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    today i fixed the melted wire situation. what i did was use a terminal block with ring crimp on connectors with 16 gauge 15kv wires as extensions coming from the stator. connected the extensions with crimp on connectors.

    i tested the stator and all config of the 3 wires yielded a .5 ohm reading and no continuity to ground. also tested my battery and seemed to be fine before the start up at 12.68v. when i started the bike it was at 13v then went to 14.48v at 5k. a little below the 14.8v mark but ill take it. the R/R seemed to be getting hot but thats normal considering all the energy its dissipating and the terminal block and wire setup seemed to be staying cool too.

    the question i have is should my head lights go off while start up and how do you do a bench test on the R/R.

    if any part of this system fails anytime soon ill just rig a Yamaha r1 R/R up with a new stator and battery.

    seems to work for now though. it will get me to work tomorrow it seems like.

    thanks for all the help.

    mdange
     
  13. Deadsmiley

    Deadsmiley Member

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    Not all Yamaha R1 R/R's are the same. The 2004-2006 will work, but have huge fins that make them hard to fit. The 2007+ have smaller fins and are easier to fit.

    Others will work too. Shamelessly stolen from: MOSFET Regulator/Rectifiers - The Why & The How - SuperHawk Forum

    Kawasaki
    ZX-6R 2007-> Cut-n-splice... Either solder, or get both connectors from eastern beaver...
    ZX-10 2004->
    ZX14 2006->
    Concours 2008-> Both MOSFET and non-MOSFET available, beware! (And the tyristor based one seems to need a larger load than the VTR to work)

    Yamaha
    FZ1 2007->
    YZF-R1 2007->
    YZF-R1 2004-2006 - Works, but has large fins, making it hard to fit...
    FJ1300 2007->
    Wildstar 1300 2007->

    Honda
    CBR 1000RR 2004-2007 - Both MOSFET and non-MOSFET available, BEWARE! Cut-n-splice
    CBR 1000RR 2008-> Odd connectors, no plugs available, use spade connectors...
    CBR 600RR 2003-2006 - Both MOSFET and non-MOSFET available, BEWARE! Cut-n-splice
    CBR 600RR 2007-> Cut-n-splice​
     
  14. mdange2011

    mdange2011 New Member

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    thanks thats exactly what i needed just in case. might just do it even though i dont need to yet.


    mdange
     
  15. stoshmonster

    stoshmonster New Member

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    Yes. When you turn the key switch on the head lights should come on. When you press the starter button you remove the "signal" voltage to the head light relays and your head lights turn off so that the battery can supply it's full power to the starter to crank the engine over. Once you release the starter button you regain contact in the starter switch and your head lights should come back on.
     
  16. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    So I finished changing the R/R and installing the VFRness today. To cut right to the chase, I now get 12.65 to 12.78 V at idle. Anywhere above that up to 6000rpm I read between 14.78 and 14.81. I can't produce a huge load on the system, but even with the high beams, blinkers and cooling fan coming on, the volts don't change. So I'm really happy about that.

    Dealing with Joshua at WireMyBike was a pleasure. He shipped quick, provided an excellent product and customer service. Big thumbs up for him!

    Now the rest of the story...with a couple questions at the end.

    It took me a little longer to install this than I thought it would - about 3 hours. (Again, keep in mind my mechanical skills are limited to oil changes, chain tension, and air pressure!). Right from the beginning I had an "issue". The instructions for the VFRness tell you to remove the 30 amp fuse at the front of the battery box. Well, when I looked, there was a 30 amp fuse "tucked away" and a pain in the ass to get to, but still at the front of the battery box. Or there was a 25 amp fuse right next to the battery. So what I thought should have been a two second task lead me to pulling out the manual, going through the motions, and realizing that someone had put the wrong size fuse in where the 30 amp should have been. Greaaaaat....

    The stator wires and plug were obviously fried from earlier, so I had to cut off the plug and about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of wire to get rid of the old brown stuff. With the new (MOSFET) R/R mounted, I had to clip off the plug coming from the R/R so I could solder the wires together. Well, when I clipped the plug off (and I saw this coming), even though I only left about a half of wire coming out of the plug, I was about 2.5 inches too short to connect the R/R wires to the other stator wires. That meant I need to use a "jumper" wire so I could make the connection.

    I suspect that maybe the original owner of the bike - and I know the R/R had been replaced - might of had to snip some wires as well, and this is what led to such a shortage. There was literally no slack in the stator wires on the bike. None.

    So that led to having to solder 6 connections in lieu of 3. Being that I've never soldered before, I did a couple practice runs on scrap wire. It went OK, so I proceeded. They turned out OK. I wouldn't say great, but I was satisfied the connection was thorough and solid. I could tug on the wires and they weren't coming apart.

    I actually had the foresight to put all the heat shrink tubing on ahead of time. I soldered up the first 3 connections to the "jumper" wire. I used the heat shrink tubing on each individual connection. Then I put the next 3 pieces of heat shrink tubing on and proceeded to solder the other end where the "jumper" wire had to connect to the R/R. I was able to slide the tubing up onto each of those connections. I had also placed a larger heat shrink tubing over all 3 wires, which I eventually shrunk down once all the connections were made and individually wrapped. Kind of like a double bagger.

    For the remaining connections, I stuck with using the clips. They weren't damaged from the previous R/R, and with the VFRness, I really don't think I need to solder each and every connection. Besides, 6 was enough and tested my patience.

    Tucked the VFRness up as best I could, made the battery connections, put in the 2 new 20 amp fuses, checked, double checked and then re-checked to make sure it was all good. Took a reading before I fired it up, then with ignition on, and finally with the bike fully fired up. The results were as I said.

    So here is my one concern after all of this.

    The 3 inch long "jumper' wire that I had to use was automotive grade, 12 gauge. If I had to guess, I'd say the existing stator wires were 16 gauge, and the wires coming from the brand new R/R look like 14 gauge. (They were definitely thinner than what I had). Additionally, the 12 gauge wire I was using appeared to be copper - what I would expect - but the wires from the R/R and the stator were more of a silver color. There was no temperature labeling on the 12 gauge wiring that I used. (I bought it a an auto parts store, told the guy it what it was for, and he said it would be fine. That's what HE says! The other wire just looked way to thin. Should have brought the R/R with me initially. Hindsight is 20/20).

    Am I going to have a problem considering there are potentially 3 different diameters of wire, and also possibly 2 different types of wire?

    Oh, and for now at least, no more FI lights stuck on.

    Thank for you help and feedback guys.
     
  17. Deadsmiley

    Deadsmiley Member

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    I think you will be fine. The three different sized wires won't hurt anything. It sounds like you have a good connection at your solder joints.

    For what it's worth, it took me over 2 hours to install the VFRness on my bike. I didn't have to solder anything or replace my R/R. Good work!
     
  18. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    Thank you sir. I honestly could not have done it without your help. And Stosh too.

    (In hindsight, it was probably closer to 4 hours for me. My wife pointed that out to me of this morning...).

    I might still do a little tweaking on how I have the harness placed.
     
  19. Deadsmiley

    Deadsmiley Member

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    I looked again at what you wrote. Are you sure it is putting out 12.65 to 12.78 V at idle? I would have expected your voltage to be around 13.5-14.5V. I don't think something is right here.

    I just checked my bike. With the high beams on I am getting 14.18v at 1,500 RPM and 13.7v at 5,000 RPM. This is with a VFRness and the "upgraded" Honda R/R (which is still a standard thyristor based R/R , BTW).
     
  20. Deadsmiley

    Deadsmiley Member

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    Don't give me too much credit. I did not write that article over on the superhawk forums. ha!
     
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