New 2002 VFR800 - Problem first day

Story:
So yesterday I excitedly traded in my ol' 94 CBR600F2 on a 2002 VFR800 with ~11100km on it. I rode it while running a few errands over the course of the day totaling about 100km (mostly backroads), during which it ran flawlessly. Then late that night, after a bit of backroad riding I reentered my home city and as I pulled up to one of the first intersections with the clutch in I noticed that the idle had dropped to less than 1000rpm. As I pulled away from the light I could hardly ignore the significant lack of power, and as I applied a bit more throttle it stumbled and surged and I pulled over immediately, at which point it stalled/quit. After about 30-60 seconds of making sure nothing obvious was wrong with the bike I thumbed the starter again, at which point it thrummed to life like nothing was wrong and I made it home without any more incidents.
Le Fin.

So as you can imagine I've been researching VFR issues fairly heavily since then, and it seems like a likely culprit is the wiring harness involved in the recall and I have no reason to believe the recall has been performed on my bike. Again, I've only owned the bike for a little more than a day and don't have a lot of information on the bike's behavior, but it sure is worrisome that I can't go a day without a fairly serious issue.

Thoughts?

 

Could be the infamous wire harness problems. You can call Honda with the VIN number, and they will tell you if the recall is done.

Because the onset of the problem was gradual, the problem is unlikely due to the kickstand switch or run switch (common causes of a motorcycle suddenly shutting down). You should definitely check battery voltage at idle and 5000rpm. Report back what you find.

 

I'd be interested in seeing what the problem turns out to be.
Where are you located?

 

I don't think this is the harness. That was primarily to do with the headlights if I'm not mistaken. I think you have the symptoms of the dreaded RR / Stator charging problem. Although, when the bike quits at the lights it usually doesn't start back up as yours did. Th eproblem with this issue is that you could test your system and all will be well but after an hour of riding the RR overheats and stops charging but you have no idea of what is happening till it quits and the next set of lights.

Tell us, did you clock loose it's setting?? This is a symptom of low voltage and a good indicator that your charging system failed mid-ride.

I've had this happen on one 5th gen while I was riding it home after purchase and on another 5th gen a thousand miles from home. My 6th gen failed close to home so I was able to make it back to the garage before it quit.

 

I had the same sort of issues with my 2009 VFR. I still don't know what caused it and the dealers couldn't work it out either.

 

My clock did not reset after it stalled, and I rode about 10mins further to home without any abnormal behaviour.

This morning before I started the bike, battery voltage was 12.7V
~13V @ Idle
~13.9V @ 2500rpm
~13.9V @ 5000rpm

So, if I'm not wrong, it looks like the R/R is performing well. I've had R/R problems before with my 94 CBR600F2, and they always resulted in a drained battery (I was kind of hoping Honda would've worked out the electrical problems in the ~10 years between models...).

I'm still thinking wiring harness. I had been using the high beams earlier during the ride without issue, and I'm fairly certain I'd turned them off a bit before coming into town. As I came into town the bike was heating up, it might have gotten to the point where the fan needed to come on, but I can't be sure I wasn't focused on the temperature till after the stall, at which point is was in the 90C range, and heated up to just over 100C before the ride was finished.

 

Firstly welcome to the MadHouse :welcome:- when you get a chance post up a picture of your VFR - as folks on here really like pictures...

Secondly the symptoms do indeed point to electrical gremlins - of which your bike is known to have issues with the charging system. Search on here for posts by Rubo and "the drill" and you will get a decent understanding of what goes wrong and why.

If you did have the instruments play up at the time eg trip reset, or you have blown headlight bulbs, fuses etc, then its a pretty high probability why the bike was up for sale. The weird thing is with the information on here its not too difficult to find the source of the problem and fix it - if you go about it in a logical step by step process.

Basically all 4 bits of the charging system (battery, RR, stator and loom) need to be in good order and a fault in one can cause damage to one or all of the others.

So start by checking the battery is fully charged - should be 12.5 volts or higher, if its below 12 then it may be time for a replacment, but its always worth recharging overnight off the bike. Check volts are good and then again after an hour to ensure its holding the charge. If all is good re-connect and continue with the checks set out in the drill until you find the underlying cause. If you simply replace a dead battery without actually finding the cause of it draining you may find the problem comes back within a few days.

Make sure you check all the connectors and ground points on the charging loom for signs of melting. Disconnect and check the AC volts from the stator at idle and 5,000rpm - across each possible pairing of the three yellow wires coming from the stator. (Bike will run off the battery for long enough to carry out the checks.) Also whilst you have the fairing off make sure you do the full diode checks on the RR - as a defect in one can often kill the other.

Good luck and if you want help interpreting the results post up your findings.



SkiMad

 

@skimad: Looks like I posted while you were writing your reply. But looking at my measurements I don't think the issue is related to the charging system. The tests were performed after more than a day of the bike sitting after the incident.

My ~30min ride into work today was uneventful, and I plan on calling the dealership shortly to let them know/complain about it today, as well as make sure that if the harness recall hasn't been performed it will be.

 

I'll start by saying I know nothing about your model VFR, but is it perhaps not a fueling problem? 13.9v is not ideal but it's within spec, and in my limited experiences, electrical problems are often very sudden, as opposed to yours which seemed to die gradually. Don't want to confuse the issue further, just thought it might be worth considering.

 

Per the Honda shop manual, spec for the battery is 13.0-13.2. This suggests the battery is either on the fritz or is being undercharged. Charge the battery fully and see what voltage it holds.

The 13.0V @ idle and 13.9V @ 5k RPM are low but not out of the generous Honda specifications (which is simply battery voltage < charging voltage at any speed < 15.5V). Members who have thoroughly cleaned their harness connectors find the voltage to be in the mid 14's at any engine speed. It's definitely worth cleaning all the connectors, even if the problem is the battery.

The stator and R/R are pretty easy to test, also. If you have not installed one, you might be interested in installing a VFRness (wiremybike.com) once you have this sorted.

Keep us posted!

 

Contacted Honda; the wiring harness recall is outstanding on my bike, and the part is now on order but it'll likely be a week or two before it gets in, let alone put on. Until then I'll keep riding it, and see if I can duplicate the problem. It's my commuting vehicle, so if the problem is chronic it'll show up sooner or later.

As for the battery, I have no idea what condition it's in, for all I know it could be original or just old/underused enough to not hold a full charge. Still, the manual says replace the battery when the charged voltage drops below 12.2V if I'm not mistaken, so it should still be healthy enough.

 

Maybe try boosting the idle speed a bit. When your fan kicked on, it might have drained too much power for the FI to operate with the engine idling so low and your charging voltage tending toward the lower end of acceptable.
+

 

I had the same problem with my 2002 vfr abs model. I had the sub-harness fixed by the recall, but the problem turned out to be a loose ground wire connection from the gas tank to the frame. After my brother put a lock nut around it, the bike has been running good ever since. See if that is the problem. I'd like to know if that was it or not.

 

Well, yesterday I was hoping to duplicate the problem. I had a BBQ to go to that involved some backroads, some stop and go and some highway riding but I never got a hiccup. The bike got up to 105C several times in the slow traffic but the fans came on without issue. When I got home at night, before I pulled into the garage, I let the bike heat up till the fans came on while I also had the high beams on, but still no issues.

If the problem still exists, and I'm not at all convinced that it doesn't, it looks like it might take a while to figure out what triggers it.

 

I am gonna bet you have a ground issue of some sort.....I would check the ground bus and any other grounds, etc. They can definitely cause intermittent issues. As was said above...check the whole charging system as well...it's easy enough to do....

 

Maybe the bike sat for a while at the dealer and was just a bit temperamental when you first took it out. I know thats not a solution but who knows, you might get lucky. Refitting the harness (if thats what they do) will hopefully sort out any earthing issues too.

 

When the dealers swaps the old harness out have them check the whole charging system to satify you before you leave

 

I checked the charging system again yesterday. This time I gave the bike some extra time to warm up and for the voltage of the charging system to settle.

Battery: 12.9V
13.9V @ Idle/1200rpm
14V @ 2500rpm
14V @ 5000rpm

Again, no problems since my first day owning the bike, fingers crossed it stays that way but I'll update the thread if anything develops.

I've been told you guys like pictures, so as a reward for your assistance;
BEHOLD!

From the day I picked it up, already wet and filthy from the ride home.

 

It was worth the wait - it looks mighty fine - Enjoy



SkiMad

 

Beautiful bike and the charging system is good to go! IF it happens again I would check grounds and connections in the wire harness....