New 5th/6th/8th gen performance header now in production in USA

Discussion in 'Anything Goes' started by sfdownhill, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. sfdownhill

    sfdownhill New Member

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    FOR SALE - one Power Commander V, Dynojet part #16-005 for 1998-2009 Honda VFR800s. Like new, very little use. Produces dyno charts like this when installed on a 2001 5th gen VFR:

    [​IMG]





    Yesterday's dyno sessions ended up being very productive. At $775, It also cost quite a bit more than expected [See invoice below]. This will result in a $30/per header increase in cost for orders placed from here on out - meaning headers not deposited at this time will cost $790 plus shipping. We will honor original pricing of $760 plus shipping for each header on all orders for which deposits have already been received.



    The day started early, meeting with Jozef [lead dynamometer technician] in Attack Performance's impressive lobby at their Huntington Beach CA headquarters. The lobby has several of Attack's MotoGP and championship winning motorcycles on display.



    After going over our plan for the day with Jozef, OOTV and I set up our pits, unloaded the bike, and handed it over to the wizard. Jozef took the bike 'behind the curtain', as Attack's shop is off limits to customers. Here's where the first evidence of skimpy photo documentation surfaces - although Jozef snapped a shot of the 5th gen on the dyno with prominent Attack logos in evidence, I neglected to collect even a text of the photo. Massive thanks to VFRD member Hammerdrill for filling in with the much needed photos seen later in this post.



    The 5th gen test bike started the day with 59877 miles, Power Commander V with zero map, a new K&N air filter, new Denso iridium plugs, PAIR system disabled/removed, ~1000 miles on Mobil 1 oil/filter, a Two Brother Racing slipon muffler, and OEM Honda 1998/1999 headers installed.



    The dyno chart at the top of the post is from the first set of dyno runs. After recording these, Jozef brought the bike back out to us - something was definitely wrong. To keep this account of the conversation brief, I'll just recount that Jozef said he'd never seen a bike run this wonkily with a PCV. The erratic readings were the result of electrical interference of unknown origin. Group deduction arrived at the possibility that the problem could be with the speed wire tapped into the Power Commander V, so we disconnected it and Jozef took the bike back into his cave. No dice, Jozef got the same misfiring and erratic results. Back in our sumptuous VIP pit area, troubleshooting arrived at disconnecting the PCV, so we did.



    After disconnecting the PCV, the bike ran well and these baseline runs were the result:

    [​IMG]





    Having acquired a successful baseline and simultaneously possessing a fuel management system that consistently sent the test bike into a tizzy, it was vital to best martial our remaining time. This meant I would drive back to Vista and pick up the PCIIIUSB which had been strategically left at home, 70 miles away from Attack Performance. Can't blame the PCIIIUSB, it would have loved to have been on the first trip to Huntington Beach. Not even the PCV can be blamed...I had singlehandedly done all the forgetting. While I was gone from Attack, OOTV would change out the 98/99 headers for the prototype, Hammerdrill would take photos, and Jozef would continue building engines for Attack, then take a long lunch.



    OOTV did a stellar job getting the 98/99 headers off and the prototype header installed.

    [All photos courtesy of VFRD member Hammerdrill - thanks dude!]



    Special tools were required to disconnect the rear primaries:

    [​IMG]



    Who left these rings under my pillow?

    [​IMG]



    And here's how he stuck 'em into the exhaust port sleeves:

    [​IMG]



    This is one of the 42mm crush gaskets after being crushed by the prototype header. Note the space between the gasket's id and the port. [This is the photo I forgot to take on fitment day]:

    [​IMG]





    Gaskets in place. Look ma, no grease! They stay in place on their own:

    [​IMG]



    Prototype headers connected to a midpipe Wade built to fit the TBR canister.

    [​IMG]



    OOTV found a way to make a too-large T-bolt clamp fit onto the midpipe - note the spacer on the threads under the clamp's nut. Also note how frickin close the prototype came to the shock linkage. This would have been of concern if the bike wasn't on a rear stand when this photo was taken - the rear wheel was hanging at its maximum extension and still cleared the collector:

    [​IMG]



    The incredibly hard-working pit crew:

    [​IMG]







    After 'lunch', with PC3 and new prototype header installed [Connected to the same TBR canister used for the baseline] Jozef got down to business and completed an exhaustive [ouch again!] tune, resulting in the comparative graph below.



    The bottom trace Run File 10 is the baseline 107.5hp / 57.01ft/lbs

    The middle trace Run File 14 is the 'just slapped the headers on' with no tuning whatsoever 110.86hp / 57.82ft/lbs

    The top trace Run File 77 is the result of Jozef's careful tuning 114.74hp / 59.82ft/lbs

    [​IMG][​IMG]





    After the dust had settled, Jozef placed a midrange reference line at 8000rpm:

    [​IMG][​IMG]





    And the ugly:

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    Wo ho ho, Good times huh ;) Way to stay the coarse.. Hot Damn, those are great numbers too. It's right there with the Two bros. Not to start a debate, what fuel did you use? Good job Guys.
     
  3. sfdownhill

    sfdownhill New Member

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    Thanks Jay! The petrol imbibed was Mobil 91 octane pump from the station across the street.

    Here's the bike on the dyno, ready to rumble. We were all surprised the coolant temp stayed between 170-180F throughout all the sessions. Even Jozef was expecting to see high temps with the side mounted radiators during power runs.
    upload_2019-1-29_19-39-41.jpeg
     
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  4. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    ;) Yep, same here the engine never got much over 185 but then it was only 60ish outside, and he had dual fans blowing away. DSCF1164.JPG
     
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  5. sfdownhill

    sfdownhill New Member

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    We finished up a second phase of R&D Thursday - dyno testing of the header - prototype #2 - in the photos below at Attack Performance. All this means is that one well researched attempt to improve on header #1 only proved #1 to be better. Production continues w header #1 the original TBR replica as scheduled.

    I am driving out to Wade’s shop Tuesday to go over proper alignment of the collector exit, taking along 98/99 headers, TBR headers, a center stand, and maybe the fitment bike.

    Here is prototype #2:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    Based on (1) exhaust theory of keeping gas velocity high through the port by maintaining a slightly smaller diameter in the first few inches of the primaries, (2) Wade’s success with this concept on his dwarf car and Razr headers (3) Black Widow and Lextek’s use of this concept,

    we had Wade build a second prototype with smaller 35mm od for the first 3.5 inches starting at the exhaust port.



    The results are clear - header #1 we tested on Saturday Jan 26 is definitely better. This chart shows header #2 down a couple hp and ft/lbs across the entire range, especially in midrange[​IMG][​IMG]


    Note: Dynojet dynos/software correct temperature, humidity, and altitude to a standard density altitude. This means the software corrects to a standard the same way aviation performance calculations are made, ie “Can this aircraft generate enough power and lift to take off from this runway at this weight, altitude, temperature, and humidity?”

    Dynojet’s correction calcs are not perfect, and neither is my spelling, but they are better than nothing. Here is an uncorrected comparison of last Saturday’s run of header #1 against Thursday’s run of header #2:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Voided76

    Voided76 New Member

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    Considering VFRD is still down,

    Are we moving the progress and updates over here?
     
  7. carlgustav

    carlgustav New Member

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    VFRD working fine (login, reading) for me this morning ...

    ACE
     
  8. sfdownhill

    sfdownhill New Member

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    Yep, vfrd is once again a fully armed and operational battle station.

    Updates:

    1 - We are waiting to hear back from Wade about how the production run is progressing - it's scheduled to be done this week.

    2 - This past weekend we fitted prototype headers to a 6 gen. We needed to trim 5/8" off the collector exit, then OEM 6 gen mufflers fit great. By early next week I will mount the now-trimmed prototype to my 5 gen to check fitment. I'll use an OEM muffler, TBR slipon, and Staintune [Using both support brackets on the Staintune to lock down positioning] to confirm that proper fitment is maintained on 5 gens after the 5/8" trim.

    3 - We have an 8 gen loaner in our sinister clutches. Monday OOTV mounted new tires while I installed speed bleeders and new brake/clutch actuation fluid to get acquainted with the 8 gen - neither of us have one [Yet]. We will be adapting one of the production run 5/6 gen headers [Without front primaries] to the 8th gen, then doing a baseline and dyno tune April 6.
     
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  9. Samuel

    Samuel Member

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    Thanks for your and OOTV's hard work, SF!
     
  10. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    All great news, this will be interesting in what comes aboutwith the 8th gen since it has a front mount radaitor. though noted the first round fittement go around sounds like it doesn't inculde those shenanigans. ggod work guys.
     
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