New & Improved Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Anything Goes' started by tinkerinWstuff, Jan 31, 2021.

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  1. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Welcome to the New & Improved Politics thread!

    This is a VFR Forum where people share their affinity for all things Honda V-Four (except it’s electrical system of course). As a forum is a place designed for discussion, it can be difficult to ignore the issues of the day when gathered (virtually) with friends. Having a thread where political discussion has a place seems to make sense.

    However, people increasingly have trouble respectfully discussing issues that can be divisive. Look at any political body in this day and it is terribly hard to find people who conduct themselves in a professional manner. Families joke how politics have ruined Thanksgiving because they cannot have civil discussions within their own families. As a parent of a young child, this is greatly concerning regarding the future our children face when people cannot have civil discourse while disagreeing.

    So this thread will have some rules. As I said earlier, this is a VFR forum, people make friends here. We get together for group rides and parties. Treat this thread as you would any real life party or social gathering. If you wouldn’t walk into someone’s garage and puke some random political pet peeve of yours and walk out, then don’t do it here. That’s what Twitter is designed for, do that over there and get your likes and flaming vitriol there. If your mode of conversation would likely get you punched in the mouth at a party, it’ll get you moderated here.

    People do not have to agree. But you best be willing to discuss issues in good faith and with respect due a fellow human and VFR World member. Let’s be an example for how the rest of the civilized world should be discussing important issues.

    -Seek to earn the respect, not of those who agree with you, but of those who disagree
    (Think RBG & Scalia)
    -NO tossing live grenades or flaming bags of poo
    -If the rabbit goes too far down the hole and you don't care to follow, consider agreeing to disagree. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!
    -More clarity on thread rules as I get more clear
     
  2. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    Well said Tink. Personally I am a hybrid of both parties. I'm all for financial responsibility, small government, states rights and other values that could be considered Republican (at least old school Republican) values. I'm also socially for equality and equal opportunity, environmental responsibility that could be considered Democratic (not the radical left Democratic) values. I vote on specific issues regardless of political affinity. I have voted for Republicans and Democrats. The polarization over the last 4 years is way off the chart. It had been happening for decades but it's now so bad its effecting just about all facets of life. Intelligent discussion with respect is whats needed for mutual understanding and finding a common ground. Agree to disagree, take a ride with them and have a nice beverage and talk after.
    Cheers!
     
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  3. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks Gator.

    I've updated the thread rules with your suggestion "agree to disagree"
     
  4. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    That pretty much sums up my, and my Wife's, approach. Well said Gator.
    Cheers!
     
  5. mello dude

    mello dude Member

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    I am ditto with Gators view.......but

    I have found political discussion pretty much kills the spirit and celebration of motorcycles in a bike focus forums.
     
  6. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Guess I’ll be first to drop something here. I thought I had my mind made up on the impeachment proceedings but this podcast lays out both sides of the debate in a very thought provoking manner. I thought this was a good share because it does lay out both sides in one source....

    hoping this link works (or find the Megyn Kelly podcast wherever you get your casts).
    (Arguing impeachment episode)
    https://megaphone.link/MKA9772858163
     
  7. Samuel

    Samuel Member

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  8. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    I'll watch the link later Tink.

    Some levity to a serious thread.
     

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  9. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    Friends that are project managers get an extra laugh out of that one. lol
     
  10. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Anyone running adult daycare should get an extra chuckle on that one!
     
  11. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    What do you think of Trump blasting McConnell? I think it is a very low blow. Trump is going to face a lot of law suits, criminal and civil from the Capitol shit storm. Not to mention the ongoing cases in New York and DC.
    If I had to bet his biggest concern is in NY. The state prosecutor Cyrus Vance is a pit bull and has been slowly and meticulously building a case against Trump involving tax evasion. That is how Al Capone was eventually done in. Trump wants to talk and act like a mafia player.... well he just might take a mafia type fall. His family is also being investigated for some very shady dealings. Deutsche Bank employees that dealt with Trumps accounts have resigned. Trump owes Deutsche Bank 340 million. It's speculated they may be turning evidence over to Vance.

    Here is an article on Vance
    https://www.ft.com/content/ebe20104-c1d6-4d0f-8db6-18cf621d2ebd
     
  12. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    We probably know Trump well enough at this point that it would be surprising if he did anything but bash McConnell. As far as the lawsuits go, I think it sets a bad precedent if we are going to make exiting presidents face lawsuits now. Why would any good people want to get into politics these days with how they're treated in the media, the social media, and then the courts?

    Couldn't see the details of the Financial Times article behind a paywall. I won't be surprised if a tax investigation turns up something that wasn't conforming to the law. Having enough business operations and complicated tax code would make it hard not to step afoul somewhere. I'm no Trump lover but to be fair I would want to know if there was willful disregard for tax law, incompetence, or simple mistakes. I'm sure Trump sits down and does his own taxes so it could be all three.
     
  13. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    I’m of the opinion that if you break the law you should be held accountable no matter what your status. As far as the income tax thing goes, he has been overstating value with records to get loans and then under stating value with records to the IRS. I think he has flagrantly disobeyed tax law. That article you can see by simply checking one box in the survey and then you can read the article.
     
  14. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Looked again, I don’t get a survey option. Guess you’re just better connected than I am :)
     
  15. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    I just checked the link, you're right. Thats weird, all I get now is the pay option.

    Anyways I think that Trump bashing McConnell is a bad thing in the long run for the republican party , especially for mid terms. Time will tell.
     
  16. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Professionalism has never been his strong suit
     
  17. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Does it piss anyone else off when a politician says, “we need to pass common sense (insert pet issue here) laws” or “I’ve introduced common sense legislation” ?

    Meaning, if you don’t agree with my point of view then you completely lack common sense. It’s like they’re saying they feel there’s no need for you to do research because they own the common sense market. How could anyone have a conversation about issues and come to an agreeable solution of said politician has already decided what’s common sense and what isn’t?
     
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  18. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    The art of debate is just about dead.
     
  19. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    I think politics is a tough subject. It has become more about emotion than facts. We can't even agree on what are facts anymore. I got tired of trying to 'discuss' it with people on Facebook and eventually just quit Facebook altogether. My father and I are on speaking terms again, but it took the chaos at the capitol to get him to concede that Trump has some major issues. I try to inform myself from multiple sources and make my decisions mostly on the voting record of whomever I'm considering.

    Considering we are only a little over 200 years into our experiment, the fact that it got this close to collapse already is pretty scary. If we can't figure out how to combat groupthink we are likely doomed.
     
  20. Samuel

    Samuel Member

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    Far too many people in positions of authority are clueless yet authoring and/or passing legislation about stuff they know little to nothing about.

    https://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/...icians/#:~:text=1.,-called “assault weapons.”

    Numerous sections in CA Penal Code are piss poorly written and at least a couple of recent CA Assembly and Senate Bills are face palm worthy...
     
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