New (to me) 91 in need of serious help

and one more quick word of advice DO NOT JUMP YOU MOTORSICLE WITH THE CAR?TRUCK WHILE IT IS RUNNING UNLESS YOU WANT TO START REPLACING ELECTRICAL PARTS!!!!!!!!!! that really wasn't meant to be in all caps. I am jsut to lazy to type it over...anyway don't have the jumping vehicle running, you will fry important stuff....

 

Right. No jumping from running vehicles because of amperage. Got it.

I'm not convinced that it's a connectivity issue, but it definitely seems electrical in some way. Here's what I did today: unscrewed the spark plugs so we're back into minimal-resistance-to-cranking mode, tried to activate starter from external battery with local battery disconnected from starter. Did not turn engine. Sparks and a single click/clack were all I got each time I tried (grounded to the oil drain screw). So I thought, "maybe the current is too much..." and reconnected the local battery. Activating the starter will crank the engine over about 4 times before it bogs down (with plugs removed).

Thoughts?

 

Ground may not be good.
Put the ground on a engine mount bolt,not the drain plug.
The drain plug has an aluminum washer on it.
Remember the discussion about aluminum only being about 1/2 as good a conductor?

 

Have you pulled the starter to see if it's good?

 

aluminum is a conductor, as is an elephant with enough electricity [video=google;-7608438281940857461]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7608438281940857461#[/video]

 

If you need to try a good starter. i can take the one off mine again and maybe spend a few hours trying to get yours running. sounds like yours is spinning. mine is still stuck for the moment. Ill send you a pm and get my phone number to you . i live in walton kentucky not to far from you. about 30 to 40 min drive.
charge your batteries and have the jumper cables available. we can get it running..
bill

 

Bill, replied to your PM.

Found something interesting today; just for fun I've been trying the starter every now and then to see if its miraculously fixed itself (plugs are still removed) and after I tried it today I happened to be checking the cable connection back at the battery. The cable that runs from the negative post of the battery to the starter was hot to the touch - I couldn't have left my finger on it. This seems to indicate to me too much resistance in the cable, a condition which would restrict the available current to the starter. Does this sound right to you guys?

EDIT: apparently, this part is discontinued so I can't buy a new one specific to this bike if I need to.

 

... or more likley the juice you put down the cable to turn the starter warmed it up.

If you still suspect the cable and have a multimeter, take both ends of the cable off (to eliminate the connections) and make sure that both terminals are clean.

With the meter on Ohms check the resistance.

It should be 3 parts of bugger all -if it isn't the cable is knackered.

 

Doing some reading before I try anything else:

http://vfrworld.com/forums/general-vfr-discussions/24813-starter-clutch.html
1994 Vfr Starter Clutch - VFR Discussion
96 Vfr750f Won't Start - VFR Discussion
http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/22135-starter-clutch-repair-vfr750-pictures.html
Starter Clutch

Based on all that, should I check my starter clutch? It sounds like it may be what I'm experiencing...

 

I say replace your ground wire with a new one have the cable cut to lenth then put the end back on it... I bet if you cut the old cable open its corroded and green on the inside....part way thru if not all the way thru..... do both cables positive and negative

 

did you ever get your bile running, I had the exact same problems that you have. starter, carbs, motor. got mine running today. Now i know i need a fuel pump and maybe a new fuel petcock on tank. Well getting the motor spinning took a while with marvel mystery oil, about a week from start to finish. then the motor will spin with a socket on the crank bolt but not with the starter. all i got was the starter selonid (in front of the battery) clicking just like a dead battery even if i jump from my Bugatti Veyron. well ok... i dont have a Veyron, i have a geo metro convertable... but it has a battery in it just like a veyron. anyway. It seems that the years of sitting and varnish/ stuck rings on pistons or what ever it was would cause the motor to be a little tight when turning over so the starter was not able to turn the motor over at all. Yes i checked cables , connections, ohm everything out and all is good. Just a case of everything a little tight.

CAUTION::::: this may void your warranty... he he he... To get it fixed here is what i did... hook up battery from metro without motot running to positive terninal on starter. hook negative (not yet) cable to braket where body work attaches just below right footpeg. make sure its in neutral. now in 2 to 5 second intervals hook the ground cable to the bracket. the motor may not start turning right away. but make sure the connection is good , i know it should turn right over, but remember it been sitting for a while and is a little tight. you will see sparks. its normal since you are using a battery with more current that you little battery can supply. after abour 5 times the motor started turning over.. remember to give the starter a rest in between just as if you were starting with regular battery in the bike. now i realize that yours may or may not be in the same condition as mine but i think mine sat for a few years in a garage without being moved.

Well 5 minutes later the motor would turn over but only it was noticeably slow. giving the stater a rest about 5 minutes and 1 minute of on and off, the motor began to spin a faster. Not as fast as it should but enough to take the cables off the battery and put them back on the battery . Now the battery could turn the motor over like it was designed, but still a little slow. since i had put marvel mystery oil in the motor i put a little fuel in the carbs to help wash out the oil. 3 tries later i hear the motor spin much faster and smoke began to slowly puff out of the exhaust pipe. once the fuel cleared out the bike started and ran for about 4 seconds. Put a little more fuel in the carbs and repeat. since im putting fuel directly into the stacks on the carbs, it naturally doesnt start right away but after about 4 or 5 seconds of spinning it fires up till i run out of gas. (no gastank on it yet. fuel pump in not working and petcock in stuck in on position, which is the reason im doing this in the first place. once i fix the petcock and fuel pump all i can do is hope the rings will hold up an it wont smoke.)

I cant say if this will work for you but since you have a second starter try this with the original. i think it might work.
I think you also said you were having trouble with your carbs being extremely hard to turn, mine were also. The can be rebuilt but all i have ever done with them was remove the bowls and jets, clean everything i could get to and reasemble them. However this time they would open unless i sprayed some carb cleaner inside and out, but then once dried they would stick again. after thinking about what happened to my bike,( the petcock valve failed and over time the gas leaked down into the motor filling up the crankcase till the tank was empty, then over the next couple of years it slowly turned to varnish)
I found a bucket large enough to hold the carbs in a level position put the bucket in a garbage bag, and filled the bucket with gas till the gas was about half the way up the carbs. closed up the bag and came back 2 days later. would have gone back the next day but i forgot about them. When i went back i dumped the gas out of them andworked the throttle a few times the carbs operated normally. this may not be the proper way but since the carbs were soaking in the gas it helped free up the varnished areas. Plus the carbs even look great on the outside now... Well to dark to do anything now.. will have it running soon....

 

Wow. That is a serious wall o' text. I have taken the liberty of editing for spelling, grammar, and clarity's sake - hopefully you don't mind. I think you might be on to something here, but I won't be back in town for a couple of weeks. My final exams were concluded Thursday and I had to work on Friday. I'm in TN for labor day weekend and then heading down to FL for some scuba diving. After that it's off the OK to visit my grandparents, but after all that is over I think we might be in business.

Here is your post, with edits:

 

LOL...... Good thing im not an english teacher, i just want to get your bike running too.. when you get back in town drop me a line we will get it running
Yea i didnt realy proof read that post actully took me 3 hours to finish. between working on the bike, the truck, the wife and my son. next time ill use bullet points and make it a little cleaner.

 

I'm back in town, but I don't have any good news to report. I tried the procedure outlined by weel above, but I didn't have a successful result. I saw nothing different than I have on previous evenings. At this point I'm getting really discouraged. Is there anyone in the Cincinnati area willing to come up/down and give me some expert advice? I'm area code 45150 to give you an approximation of distance. Help?

 

i'll get with you and we will set up a time. Mine is running but the fuel pump/circuit may not be operating properly yet..

 

Good new fellows: it's running*!!!

Bill (aka weel) came up yesterday and we figured out what the problem was. There is a spacer/washer that is on the pin/shaft of the idler gear that is driven by the starter. When we took off the right side cover, this spacer fell off. While the cover was removed, the bike would crank like a champ off of its own battery, but when we put everything back together as we had found it and tightened it all down, it began acting as it had before (not starting). We decided it must be a clearance issue and called it a day. Later that evening, as I was reading service manuals, I noticed that the spacer was supposed to be on the other side of the idler gear. I immediately went to the garage and fixed this - voila! everything is smooth and happy. I poured a little gas down the carb funnels and a few cranks later she fired up! Cheers and dancing ensued :biggrin:.

So now we know that it runs. Today I put the tank back on it, and tried to start it normally. At first I could see the fuel being pulled through the filter, but after a few cycles it didn't drain out every time I cranked it. Not sure what that means, but that's where I am at this point. I can ride the starter and it will crank and crank and cough every little bit. I'm assuming this means I get to pull the crabs back off and clean out the slow jets, but I'd love to be told otherwise. :wink:

Thoughts?