On Air Filters

Had a K&N on my MX-6 LS (V6). As it was an automatic, there wasn't an aftermarket cold-air intake or the space for custom one. She already had an induction system that tried to siphon air from directly above the radiator between the semi-sealed slit of the hood and bumper. Well, what was I supposed to do? I removed that entire piece of corrugated tubing and such along with the airbox (was a resonator chamber to subdue that induction roar when the VRIS kicked in, think VTEC but variable intake inlet tracks, serves same purpose). I then went to Autozone and grabbed the largest filter that would attach to the plumbing and a small paper fuel filter for another, can't recall at this time, that took air from the airbox. With all that gone, there was a great sounding and looking filter from a Silverado pick-up truck! Huge! What a sound before the transition of the VRIS and afterwards. You could always hear the hiss of the induction. At WOT you could hear the power pulses, almost like my old but gone 300ZX Turbo ('84). Who, who, who, who as the gulps of air rushed in. It was sweet. It was going to breath hot air anyway. It was the best I could do. The dealership loved it!

Anyway, I've just installed a Pipercross in the '04 and a BMC in the '99. Also, I've got a spare Pipercross. It was a bugger to get in, with me removing but keeping the seal. Little by little, and then letting of the torque and re-applying to finally a good seal, paying attention to any puckers and such. The filter inside the '04 was full of crap, literally. I didn't check that as I should have, with the other maintenance I had performed. Anyway, the throttle response is superb. It might have already been like that, but this was a very noticeable difference. Just a tiny quick twist and there she goes, "I wanna rev!" I'm curious of the difference without such a clogged filter for which to begin, read new OEM.

Similarly, I'd like to know too with the mods and all especially against say a BMC. One thing, area isn't everything.

Has anyone thought about permeability? That plus the cross-sectional area would determine flow. No dyno needed. It would answer the question of which flows better, period. Other variable factors would be the frequency of the gulps of air and at different volumes.

Oh my, we have the quick and dirty permeability and cross sectional area vs. the all out thermodynamic mathematical model.

CandyRed, heard of FEM, Finite Element Method? One of my professors is "supposed to be" one of the top ten in the world and top three in the US for this kinda stuff. He's a Northrup-Grumman professor. He has a private practice and does everything from ships to planes. Another, he is sooo awesome, finished two Masters and Doctorate at Georgia Tech in THREE YEARS, specializes in the same. I will pose to the former the question. I betcha he's gonna be like, "Grab a trial of COSMOL and go to work; that stiff learning curve I was referring to will be minimized by the packaged physics."

Anyway, permeability and usable cross-sectional area are base factors. Anything is just fine tuning the answer. I think these factors, alone, are enough to prove which is better without taking into consideration wear and degradation of the material or it being ingested into the engine. We wanna know which flows best. Those factors can only back up the dyno results or be a great projector for future dyno runs.

 

Yeah I had a few materials and solidworks classes that required FEM analysis. Really cool stuff. I could see the K&N air filter, with it's small opening and filter media protruding into the velocity stacks causing uneven and turbulent air flow into the throttles, while the Pipercross, with it's very large opening and filter media curving upwards and away from the velocity stacks, delivering much more even and unrestricted air flow.

Side note, I did have a BMC filter and it only lasted a couple years before falling apart. Worst part is they are not lifetime warrantied like K&N and Pipercross, so when it fails, you need to buy a new one. The BMC filter opening was only a little larger than K&N, but still had the issue of the filter media sitting on top of the velocity stacks. The other issue with the BMC is that it doesnt have a soft rubber body like the KN that can be glued to the media, it has a hard thin body the the media is pressed into, that vibrates and eventually wears or the media surround and it then falls apart.

You are right though about the Pipercross being difficult to fit. It does take a while to install without bunching it up.

 

Awe, can you go into a bit more detail in what I'm about to get into? I'm one thats doesn't care for surprises, even though I'm a great problem solver, be nice to get a head start here, now that this is like the third time I've heard this. What is the main issue with it fitting in what you encountered?

 

Ah, no William, that's your befuddled response to my knowing without asking what you did to your bike--without research. Takes the mystery away. Pissing contest. I've known about Krauser (esp. the MTM), San Jose BMW, Jerry Branch, how R100s are hot-rodded, and chatted with Buckingham a number of times (almost bought a K100RS 16v from him), for decades. Could also discourse with ya' on who Kaz Yoshima is, what they did to make the CB750 competitive with 1000s in early Superbike, how the Laverda Jota came into existence, and the relative merits of roundslides like Dell'Orto PHMs vs. Mikuni flat slides. Or what John Wittner did for Moto Guzzi. And whether Geoff Duke is the greatest rider ever. Dad owned a BSA Silver Star.

That said, you run into thermal limits pretty quick with all that power in an aircooler; is a big oil cooler part of it?

Would be curious to know what it does on a dyno.

Kristian
Seattle (just down the street from Buckingham's ex-dealership)

 

Your research from several websites consisted of your topic interrogative or you should be on Jeopardy's motor cycle trivia show...

"Wow, stock RSs ran quartermiles in around 13.5 @ 100 MPH; your VFR managed 11.4s @118+ MPH."

It is suspect that you had all that committed to memory also unless you have owned or have some experience with either bike. Kinda makes me think you might not get away with the befuddled defense or prosecution. I will leave others to judge that.

Kudos on the academics but the major difference here is that I done the deed and you didn't. Sorry dude, no oil cooler large or small. Increased capacity +/- two quarts and deep fins in a deep sump make up for any increased heat loads real or imagined. Possibly some dissipation is extant from the thin rocker covers that fit the Krauser heads.

No truck here with Kaz Yoshima. The can on the VFR was on the bike. I can attest with confidence that it's lasted a long time and performed without a hitch. Again an experience thing not out of a book someplace.

Came close to popping for one of the 750 4's when they hit here. Same thing with Bill Buckingham. I almost bought a K75 he built for Gina. Not a clue who your Guzzi guy is. Hung with a few of the guys in the Guzzi club including a couple of those bigass breakfasts they go for down in Enumclaw. Author Greg Field hooked me into that gig. You must know Dave Richardson too, since you are a Guzzi fan. His book on the bikes exceeds classic. Next time your in the shop, say hello to Lisa Micone. Lisa used to work for Bud at Seattle Cycle. I was Buds first customer. Bought a shitload of goodies for my SR.

The problem with Dell'orto carbs that I found out the hard way is that the 40mm versions have come in two basic configurations. A left and a right. Whether one will work upsidedown I never found out. Sold one and gutted the other thn polished it up. Biker art ya know...

If you can talk George Dean into plugging the BMW into his real dynamometer and want to pay for it, I am most happy to comply. George has a thing aboot BMWs, Ducatis, MotoGuzzis, probably Laverdas and most certainly Harleys.

If that BSA your dad had was still around and in good shape it would probably be worth to a Japanese Collector enough to buy a New Beemer. I knew a guy who had a bistro in Pioneer Square years ago that had several Laverdas.

Best rider of all time? Best start a whole new thread on that one... I'm going with Malcom Smith or Ed Kretz.

So did you pick a color yet?

 

I'm trying to wade through all this test stand stuff to maybe come up with a real world observation on an all round air filter for most of us regular dudes who are not seeking the "Warhol Plateau".

 

Its not really hard to install, just a few minutes to get it right. We like em tight. lol

 

KN for someone that wants to buy a filter and reuse it forever and doesnt care about power.
Pipercross for someone that wants to buy a filter, for a little extra money, reuse it forever and cares about power.
OEM for someone that cares about filtering and stock power and doesnt mind buying a new one every year.
BMC for someone that wants to buy a filter and reuse it for a couple years, buy another one every couple of years and doesnt care about power, filtering ability or reliability.

 

I'm a lawyer, so I research everything I'm interested in. I collect road tests of bikes (and cars) I own, and have copies of original VFR road tests, plus lots of seat time on all VF/VFR iterations, especially Gen. 3s--and I owned a '91 too. I collect R.M. Clarke's Gold Portfolios, the great MC & car road test compendia he's been publishing since God was a child, and have them on Guzzis, BMWs, Laverdas, Porsches, and BMWs. A small matter, then, of flipping a page for actual data. And, I have a strong interest in R90Ss and R100RSs, researched the hell out of them, and nearly bought a 90S instead of the VFR. So, yep, chapter and verse is at hand.

I've known Dave R. since 1992; a fine fellow, and a fine shop. My trick '95 Guzzi Sport 1100 is immortalized in G. Field's book "Guzzi Big Twins," though I have little patience for the man's politics. Just got done reading Dave's "Guzziology," in preparation for possibly returning to MCs on another Guzzi. I declined--VFR800s are too cheap now, but, I still love Le Mans IIIs, Sport 1100s, and Daytonas.

Don't know Kretz, but, Malcolm certainly is up there on dirt; I was always more beholden to road racing, so Duke, Agostini, Dunlop, Lawson, Rainey, and Rossi (by necessity) are on my list.

I really regret my dad selling the Mercedes 300SL Cabriolet we had in the late '60s when I was a bairn, and the Maserati 3500GT they drove me around in when an infant! Dad was an automotive engineer; it's from him I got my car and MC lust.

Do you live in the Seattle area, since you know Dean?

 

Thought i would save same $$ once and bought a VFR unifilter, but it seems that the sticky oil that coats the foam actually destroys it within about 3 years !!!!

 

I come to the Seattle area on business. I do not live there anymore. Yes, I do know George Dean, and Greg Field and Bill Buckingham and Gina and Lisa and .... I would think that was fairly evident even for a lawyer.. You must know that Greg worked for Dave and so did Mark Pfenning (RIP).

I had a couple of magazine collections of Downbeat and a bunch of back issues of Gourmet. Greg immortalized mostly Harleys. I have his books on Harleys. I'll have to ask Greg if he still has that Ambassador. Greg and I became friends when he and his SO first moved to Seattle. I was coordinating the Poker Run for the Indian Jeff fund raiser. Lots of meetings, long winded speeches about who was going to be the HMFIC. As a "participant" I was up for my "report". This consisted of " First bike out at 0800.'' Greg likes to tell that one on me.

I find there is significant differences in knowing of someone and actually knowing them personally as there is having actual experience and reading about something in a collection. All well and good but there is a difference.

Never owned a Guzzi. I got a few miles on Karl Rader's OHCammer and about an hour on Loops bike We swapped on a ride to the Tacoma Duc's "Dino Daze" SE of Olympia one year before Loop did himself.

Your list of great riders is tip top but limited to road racing lore. There's a short Utube showing Rossi on a dirt bike doing some fancy riding and sliding. Lots of stuff on both Ed Kretz Sr. aka Ironman and Ed Kretz Jr. Some racers are more versatile than others and IMO if at the right time and the right place under the same conditions........I have found that most statistics on racing belong mostly on spreadsheets after the fact. I hope this does not get a comparison of who would come out on top of a mano-a-mano between Muhammed Ali and The Rock..

If I was cornered into choosing a favorite car at least in overall design it would likely be a Mercedes-Benz 300SL "Gullwing" c. 1955. Topless it would have to be the 300SLR. Not being in the upper stratosphere of the Greenlake area, I have to be content with my old 1966 Taxicab model. My dad was a lawyer but he was a Pontiac man. Did the city fathers in your area ever figure out what to do with all that goose, duck and hybrid poop that was getting stepped on and fouling the water in Greenlake?

Are we to infer you do not currently ride?

 

Boy, funny you mentioned Pfenning. I lost touch with him around 2002, after having bought thousands of dollars worth of stuff from him starting at Seattle Cycle in '87 or so; he was always a fine fellow. I was really saddened to hear of his passing 3-4 years ago; the best I could come up with was that he had a massive heart attack while blasting through some Eastern Oregon canyons on his Buell, and was found some time later. I was really very sad to hear of it, as I had been trying to track him down for a beer, though the Buckaroo was out at that point...

Indian Jeff; good of you to be involved; that was after I dropped out of the scene in '03. What a terrible story, and one the lessons of which I keep close to heart.

I just got back into the saddle two months ago, on the aforementioned '00 VFR, currently undergoing refreshment of cooling system O-rings, full service, inside-out cleaning, braided brakelines, full Daugherty suspension, etc. ad nauseam.

We must've unknowingly crossed paths at VME meetings during the '80s/'90s. Next time you're in town, let's meet up; I'll buy you a dram in sunny Ballard.

Best,

Kristian

PS: Now, Ali vs. Senna--there's a comparison worth discussing. Over acid.