Politics, politics, politics.....

Discussion in 'Anything Goes' started by Ghost_Rider, Apr 24, 2012.

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  1. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Where’s that in the constitution? In the federalist or anti-federalist papers?

    there are some real discussions to have about wage disparity, poverty, and opportunity. It’s my belief that too many on the left side want to deal with symptoms instead of getting to root causes. Dealing with symptoms fails to cure the underlying cancer and save the patient.

    for example, increases in minimum wage will create more automation and fewer jobs and opportunity for people who want it. How many jobs have been eliminated by your smartphone already in the pandemic? Online ordering, soon to be automated delivery. What’s the motivation for McDonald’s to employ burger flippers at all as the wage for them is artificially manipulated by elected representatives?
     
  2. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    what I’m saying is, I believe that people, frequently on the left end of the political spectrum, seem to have a tendency to oversimplify complicated systems. This fails to recognize the unintended consequences of action. I.e. what minimum wage adjustments could to do the number of available jobs further pushing more people to poverty. Or assuming forced lockdowns could save a life while ignoring what could happen to poverty, drug use, and suicides.
     
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  3. cat0020

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    Does every problem in our current society has to be in the Constitution to require a solution?
    If that's the case, our Constitution requires a serious update.

    So what exactly are the root causes? Social injustice? racial injustice? economic injustice?
    Can you name any root cause to these symptoms?

    You think getting paid a living wage is going to move more jobs to automation?
    That would be a good thing, no more people need to work for slave wages, able to earn a living without working 3 jobs that pay $7.50/hr each.
    More time away from slave work would allow workers to focus on their health, mental health, less likely to get addicted to drugs or contemplate suicide; especially when universal healthcare would cover any health or mental health problems.

    You seem to fail to recognize that our annual Pentagon budget, international war budget can easily cover universal healthcare, universal income to solve the economic problem of this country many times over. Instead of helping our citizens domestically, our government is wasting taxpayer money on endless wars overseas; to make people around the world hate Americans & endanger American servicemen & women overseas.

    Lockdowns are just cautionary measures during a global pandemic, which have killed over 400k Americans.
    Talk to your family physician whether lifting the lockdowns is a good idea for densely populated cities during a global pandemic.
     
  4. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    what you named was a job description. You don’t get to just redefine the job description or roles and responsibilities of the POTUS.

    Which one would you like to unpack? No one will keep up with three discussions in one thread. We could set some criteria, maybe a new thread and peel back the layers of the onion. Maybe start with a five why and see how deep it goes.


    I know increases in wage lead to increased automation. You can buy a robot for less than one year wages, taxes, and insurance of one $18/hr full time employee. $50k on one app eliminates thousands of basic order taker and customer service jobs.

    Do you have a source or is it hypothesis that fewer entry wage jobs lead to utopia? I can cite psychiatric doctors who say that the lack of work, even without wage concerns, leads to depression and an increase in suicide. They tell a depressed person to go find a job, even one that’s “beneath” them so their life has purpose. You have a vision of utopia that doesn’t connect with any thing I know to be true of human kind or any research I’ve found.
    This is a big problem and wasting time and energy fighting over minimum wage fails to solve the big problem coming. It’s harder to get entry level jobs and it’s harder for anyone with a below average IQ to find employment. As I understand it, you must have an above average IQ even to get into the armed forces. Clearly that wasn’t the case when you signed up. :p


    When did I fail to recognize this? Isn’t this a new point of discussion you just brought up?

    lockdowns are an example of how pulling one lever on a complex system has many unintended consequences. Most recently 18 teen suicides in Las Vegas along with increases in poverty which seems like your most passionate cause.

    You should check out Peterson’s podcast with Gregg Hurwitz. Hurwitz is a democrat that helped the party win several seats this past cycle. It’s your people. I don’t know how you could listen to that episode and not be a fan of Peterson.
     
  5. Gator

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    I think that inaccurate C19 reported deaths are balanced out by the ones that are not even reported. Just like what happens every year with the flu. Is a guy riding a motorcycle that dies in a crash a bike death or was it the heart attack that caused the crash the cause of death. Bottom line is the US has 1/4 of the entire planets deaths and doing nothing sure as hell is not working. We will be at 1/2 a million dead very soon. When is the "anniversary" of C19? Today was the first reported case. Pandemic was declared I think at the beginning of March. C19 is at least 8 times more deadly that the average flu year. 12 times more deadly than car wreck deaths. In fact C19 is close to ALL forms of cancer deaths combined. People that think that the measures of combating C19 infringe on their rights or are too severe to really help should think about seat belts, airbags, experimental cancer drugs and other means of helping people survive some awful death. Yes even cloth masks do something. Proper masks and distancing work even better. If we as a whole had not politicized this shit we could have bought a lot more time to get a vaccine up to speed and saved a LOT more lives. I'll say again, yes Australia was firm with its shut downs but the people did not divide themselves into tribes and the country as a whole is light years better than the chaos division has caused here in the US.
     
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  6. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    What are your thoughts when you look at the world continents? The US is most of North America and the continent has fewer deaths than Europe.

    Source Worldometers https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
     
  7. Gator

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    Well land mass wise we are bigger. Per capita deaths we are still higher that ALL f the European countries combined Total population of Europe is a little over 721 million people with 662326 deaths. The US pop is 328 million with 425000 deaths. So yeah we are still in last place or 1st place according to how you frame it. Europe is way more crowded and I think that alone would contribute to faster and more wide spread transmission. Political division is our problem.
    Kind of reminds me a while back when I was on my Honda at bike week in Daytona and a Harley rider was giving me shit for not buying American. I said well your bike is not entirely American. He took great offense until I asked where his Showa forks were made, (Japan) or his EFI system that comes from Korea or the steel used for his pistons (Japan) and many other parts. He was looking at me with a lost look on his face when I said I bet that Harley T shirt you are wearing is not US. His buddy flipped the tag and started laughing, China! Ignorance is bliss and biased.
     
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  8. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    I guess I'm still a little confused. Worldometers shows the USA ranked 11th in the world in deaths per million population. Fewer deaths than Italy and the UK. Nothing to brag about by any means, just not understanding the disconnect between their data and yours?
     
  9. Gator

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    You said Europe, on a country by country per capita we are not the highest. If I remember correctly compared to European countries only Italy is higher than us on a per capita basis. Tightly packed countries have a harder time controlling this crap. I'm worried about some of the new mutations, they are far more contagious than the already vey contagious original strain. And they don't know yet if the vaccines work on it. I still wonder if this was a bio weapon being developed in China that got out of control.
     
  10. cat0020

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  11. Gator

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    That PBS Doc was very interesting. Seeing Cruz and Rubio who both publicly trash and hated Trump fold like wet noodles was just pitiful.
     
  12. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm usually one to jump to conspiracy theories but it's hard to be surprised by anything coming from the CCP. Have you seen the reports where they've found SARS-COV-2 in blood bank samples dating previous to the reported cases in Wuhan? https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-01-...s-earlier-than-in-Wuhan-XfTTs6HacE/index.html

    We keep hearing the reports about how the mutated strains are so much more contagious than the original but doesn't appear that cases are falling. Everywhere sees a second wave just not all at the same time. Could the "more contagious" strain be more fear mongering and clickbait?
     
  13. Gator

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    I don't think its fear mongering, I think more shit is going to hit the fan. I traveled a lot world wide for work during many other viral outbreaks and thankfully never caught H1N1, Ebola or other corona viruses. This C19 is by far the biggest pain in the worlds ass. But I'd rather contract C19 than Ebola! Bleeding out through all of your orifices in agony is probably worse than drowning in your own lung fluids.
     
  14. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Drowning has always been a big fear of mine, either death sounds pretty horrible.

    Please don't think I was saying C19 is all fear mongering. My click-bait comment is pointed at the claim that the variants "may be 50%" more contagious. Has anyone seen reliable data proving that hypothesis or is it just another possibility to be afraid of.

    Because you know, you need to be VERY afraid.
     
  15. cat0020

    cat0020 Trumper

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  16. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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  17. cat0020

    cat0020 Trumper

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    Once again, you have no clue what privilege I was talking about.
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    Topic of for-profit prisons & our so-called "justice system" is also rigged for investors:
    [​IMG]

    Maybe these topics don't pertain to you, so you can just ignore them; that's privilege.
     
  18. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Maybe if you had normal conversation instead of the constant meme parades there would be less opportunity for misunderstanding?
     
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  19. cat0020

    cat0020 Trumper

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    Your inability to understand clear text displayed among imagines does not make the messages any less clear, learn to read.

    Must be a privilege not have to get through life without comprehending what you read.

    I guess when you can't debate about the context of the memes, you are resorted to label the context as "opportunity for misunderstanding".
     
  20. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    You just want to see how far you can push it before the ban hammer drops? You’re not going to sit here and tear this forum apart.
     
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