Restarting my project VF500F from 2016

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by Hellapet, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. Waylander

    Waylander New Member

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    Looking real nice


    VF1000F2F, now rideable,
     
  2. Hellapet

    Hellapet New Member

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    Thanks guys, I'm really pleased with how it's turning out. I've ridden it a few miles now and burnt most of the oil off. It still wants to stall out if I'm off the gas for 20 seconds or so just idling. The brakes feel a little better after being bled but not as good as I remember. Maybe riding the rebel 250 which weighs half as much has shifted my perspective on how the brakes should feel. I've only ever ridden two bikes...
    I'm at the beach surfing this weekend which is usually the only thing on earth I want to do, but all I can think about is getting home and riding and wrenching. Cheers, hope everyone has a good weekend!
     
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  3. Hellapet

    Hellapet New Member

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    After reading a little about the brakes on these bikes looking for pad recommendations, I decided to make sure that the floating pin thingies were greased up and working properly so the calipers can slide left to right as the pistons move. I also wanted to see if I could figure out what pads were on the bike but they had a thick layer of that red glue stuff on the back so no idea there. What I found was troubling but explains what might be causing my poor brake feel: the small pin slider tube thing, which works differently than I thought, was totally seized in both calipers. This explains some highly uneven pad wear.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
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    I had to use a hammer and pliers to remove them, and the rubber boots were ruined on one side. They are both bad but one is probably salvageable and I have a spare caliper that came with my Hurricane rear brake hanger that I might pilfer the tube out of. It seems like rebuild kits generally don't come with this part. Anyway, I cleaned the parts as best as I could and lubricated them with high temp brake/clutch grease.
    I rode the bike a little bit and think the brakes felt a little better. I think I can't hope for anything amazing but this is a good start and hopefully new pads and a rebuild will really up the stopping power. At present I feel like there is a little bit of feeling and a good bit of stopping power left to be found.
    Couple questions:
    Are EBC HH pads still the standard for street riding?
    What should I use to lube the speedo drive while I'm working on the front end?
    Thanks for reading!
     
  4. Colddevil

    Colddevil New Member

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    Those "Sleeves" look similar to all of them that I've encountered. You can get them pretty cleaned up using a wire wheel--but obviously it's better to outright replace them. I've done both. Unfortunately, you really only learn of their existence the first time you take one of these calipers apart... and you've got all your rebuild kit and everything and you think you're all ready to go and them bam--rust rod. Still, I think you can likely get it clean enough to work with some new grease and new rubber boots. I'd just put a set of three of those sleeves in your online shopping cart for the next time you're ordering parts.

    I installed a set of EBC HH pads a week or so ago, and there was a pretty stark difference compared to the pads I was replacing. Like you, I couldn't figure out what the pads were I was replacing.
     
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  5. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Insider

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    I have only ever used 3 in 1 motor oil. I add it to the top where it is inserted into the speedo and let it drip down.
     
  6. Hellapet

    Hellapet New Member

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    Found the sleeves on ebay, it even seems like someone is making new ones out of stainless but I don't want to pay $22 to ship them from Germany. I'm going to do the brake pads soon too. EBC HH seems like the way to go.
    I've also got what is now a considerable leak from behind the clutch slave housing thing. Basically, the bike is not gonna stop smoking til I fix that. Any ideas? Thanks for the help guys
     
  7. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    Yes, HH are still the way to go.

    Ugh... HOPE it is not your clutch rod seal. But, unless it is brake fluid from your slave, I fear it is.
     
  8. Colddevil

    Colddevil New Member

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    The clutch slave rebuild is probably a good idea to do. It's very simple and inexpensive. If it hasn't failed yet, it's going to soon after 30-some-odd-years.

    Would that be because this thing looks literally impossible to replace?

    clutchRodSeal.JPG
     
  9. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    Uh, yep. Technically it's a split the cases scenario. Which I have done without removing heads or cams 2 days before a race weekend. Only to find a mushroomed valve stem from valve float when I was re-installing the tensioners. That's a "FUCK" moment.

    Now there are alternatives.

    1: Get some HIGH HEAT shrink tubing. Not only more resistant to the engine heat, it is also a thicker, more durable material. Apply about an inch or so on the push rod right where the seal is, making sure it covers the whole "stroke" area. The idea is to increase the diameter and put a little more pressure on a weak, relaxed oil seal. I have actually done this and it worked (on the replacement race motor). It's still there today and last time I road that bike on the street it was still working. But I think I got lucky, I think results will vary wildly.

    2: With a dremel you cut a "slot" in the crankcase lip the width of your new oil seal. You then push the old seal in and spin it with tools, then pull it out the slot. Insert your new seal, spin it and pull it back into position with hook type tools. Haven't done it, but I've seen it done and success was reported.

    3: Just fucking remove the lip, pull the seal like every other bike on the planet. Reinstall your new seal with a light smear of Hondabond flush with the case. Haven't done this yet, but I have read write-ups with pictures and good results reported. This will be my method the next time one of my 500 needs that seal. I will also per-emptively perform this operation on any engine before it goes in the frame on a resto-mod, while it's out and easier.

    I'm not entirely sure why Honda felt that was needed. None of the other V4s have it. If you were worried about oil pressure (or whatever) somehow pushing that seal out, you could JB Weld a small retaining plate to the crankcase that would still be removable in the future. I wouldn't worry about it.

    Good luck!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
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  10. Hellapet

    Hellapet New Member

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    [​IMG]
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    Sad times. Looks like someone was already in there with some RTV or something, and already tried the high temp shrink wrap technique. And the bike will never stop smoking if I don't fix this. On the plus side the clutch slave was rebuilt by me I think in 2016.

    I salvaged the brake sleeve and boots from the spare caliper and the sleeve was in perfect shape so I'm only gonna order two. Looks like I replaced the rear pads in 2016 as well though I didn't take them out to find out what pads I used. Probably EBC, if I'm the same person I was then.
    I also flushed the coolant today. Is there a way to confirm that the thermostat is opening and closing properly? When I rode the bike the other day the needle went past the middle. I can't remember if that's normal or not. I also do not remember hearing the fan kick on now that I think about it, though I may have just not noticed.
     
  11. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Insider

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    Suspended
    Thermostat testing is pretty easy although I can say I have only done it AFTER REPLACMENT !!! - lol In other words, I have always replaced it with new, then tested the old one after.
    Lots of you tube videos on it... Don't forget to get a new gasket.
     
  12. Colddevil

    Colddevil New Member

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    I was hoping to find some pictures of what it looks like when you just fucking remove the lip. Unfortunately it looks like the relevant pictures in this thread seem to have disappeared: https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index...-incubation-period-at-least-52-years/page/10/

    I take it that you'd want to pull the clutch rod and then use some type of a cutting wheel (guessing it needs to be pretty small diameter) to cut this solid yellow area out.

    lip.JPG
     
  13. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    I think Dutchy used something like this to grind down the lip.

    [​IMG]

    When you get down far enough, the lip will go away, including the raised area where the c/s cover sits, exposing the whole seal. You need to be methodical and even as you can, removing just enough material.

    Maybe pop over to VFRD and send him a message.
     
  14. Hellapet

    Hellapet New Member

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    Funny, I read through that thread last night and was disappointed that the pics were missing. I think I get what to do though. Not looking forward to it.
     
  15. jstehman

    jstehman New Member

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    "With a dremel you cut a "slot" in the crankcase lip the width of your new oil seal. You then push the old seal in and spin it with tools, then pull it out the slot. Insert your new seal, spin it and pull it back into position with hook type tools. Haven't done it, but I've seen it done and success was reported."

    I've done this on my Magna. V4M calls it the "keyhole method"

    But, the Magna gear output case is different and it does not have the thicker part at the 3 o'clock position. Though I imagine if you cut out the lip at 12 and 6, you can slip the seal in, turn it and pull it back towards you with 2 shortened Allen keys.

    Buy a couple seals just in case

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
  16. Hellapet

    Hellapet New Member

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    Hi folks. jstehman I'm not sure what you mean by "cut a slot" but I think I'm gonna just grind the whole thing off with a die grinder since I don't have a dremel.
    Today I installed the chin fairing and put the little rubber pads in the front fairing since I've lost the ones that came with the bike. A minor cosmetic improvement. I also readjusted the shifter pedal since I put it on in a way that my foot was interfering with the kickstand when upshifting. I then proceeded to tip the bike over and land the handlebar on my left pinky finger when leaving for lunch. DO NOT RECOMMEND.
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    Questions for y'all:
    If (I assume) my choke cable is properly adjusted and I run the bike with the choke always at least partially on, am I going to hurt the engine? Does it still deliver extra fuel when off idle?
    Should my carb boots look like they are at the very slightest angle off of perpendicular with the runners? Are my carbs on TOO far?
    Did I bend a rotor when I tipped the bike over? It is now making a slight metal rubbing sound that correlates with wheel speed, only when leaning left.
     
  17. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Insider

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    I'd suggest its not setup correctly - at no time should you be running the engine with the choke on in normal riding conditions. If by on you mean at first COLD start, full choke, start, slightly adjust to bring the rpms down, get on & start riding, then push home after a minute. Thats how I run mine.

    Its impossible to put the carbs on too far as they sit against a lip on the inner rubber - BUT its really easy to screw up the positions as you may need to 'key' them.
    - provide pics will help us determine if required

    Possible, easy way to check with a pencil taped to the fork leg.
     
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  18. Hellapet

    Hellapet New Member

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    Here are a couple pics, you can maybe see the left boot in both pics looks a little more obtuse than 45*
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  19. jstehman

    jstehman New Member

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    Only cut the lip slightly wider than the thickness of the new seal. Then you can insert the new seal like dropping a coin into a n arcade game or a "key" then using picklike tools to turn it to face you, then pull it outward to seat.

    But grinding the entire lip works too. I used a micro die grinder from HF. Worked great.

    http://v4musclebike.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32383

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
  20. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    Pretty damn sure the 500 boots have to be installed a certain way. There is a front and back and a top and bottom. There's something in that second pic that makes me think this has not been done. And if you have to ride with the choke on (after warm up), your carbs have to come back out anyway.
     
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