Riding Advice

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by jayzonk, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. jayzonk

    jayzonk New Member

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    I believe I called them tight radius turns. No, I'm not riding through the tail of the dragon...wish I was, but no....
     
  2. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    What are twisties anyway?
     
  3. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

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    I have to disagree....
     
  4. RobVG

    RobVG Member

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    Twisties are anything that get your panties in a twist, due to pucker factor.
     
  5. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    OMG, another sales pitch for Pampers..;)
     
  6. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    Pull up SOW's skirt after he drops his bike again. There is a prime example.
     
  7. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Yet another reason for ATGATT.
     
  8. jayzonk

    jayzonk New Member

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    What's ATGATT?
     
  9. jayzonk

    jayzonk New Member

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    Went through the same series of curves again this weekend, but only went through once. Last corner went well, about the same speed (125km/hr), but the line through the curve was nice, so I think I can go faster. I did spot a small bit of B gravel there, though, so must be careful. Just wanted to thank Knight Insider and jimbo for the advice on this. By pressing on the outside peg, this (to me, anyway) seemed to bring the back wheel under better control, and it felt like the radius of the turn was tighter because of it. It was easier for me to put that into practice on the right handers than the left, but that's just me needing some brain training.
    Would be good to get video of yourself in the corners to see where further improvement is needed. My ride buddy said it looked proper from where he is, but I'm thinking that I can push the bike over further, yet keep myself more upright as I go through. Does that sound right?
     
  10. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    ATGATT is an acronym. " All the gear all the time." It won't help your cornering much but will save your ass or other parts if the corner jumps up and bites you.

    Gotta say that all theory shit ain't worth spit if the bike is not up to it. We are talking worn rubber, having a feel when cams or Vtech kick in, stomping on a rear binder when that is not the thing to do. All this combined is why just on session at a track with instruction is mucho better than the books..
     
  11. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    You lean with the bike, at the same angle as the bike. (Passengers should also be taught to lean right with you.)

    Keith Code talks about how we all handle right-left differently. It is a universal thing for us to be naturally better at one than the other. So we practice the side where we are weaker.

    To the point of others who warned about safety: Keep in mind that if you push a corner to the bike's and your physical limits, you will have no extra traction and no extra lean available to make an adjustment. If you hit a flaw on the road, or a car driver comes right at you from the other direction, this can spell going down or even death. Also we tend to err on leaning early rather than late. Examine the "lean too early" path. We put ourselves too close to the center of the road and to opposing traffic. When you go around that turn, you must assume that a car is going to come at you crossing far over the centerline. Assume that everyone is drunk and stupid. If you have a nice clear one mile view of that road, great, but then keep in mind that most motorcycle accidents are single vehicle accidents. Sorry to pile on the wet blankets. You may be acting very carefully, but we do not know that from afar. The track is truly the only place where we should push those turns to the limit.
     
  12. jayzonk

    jayzonk New Member

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    That's interesting. I don't crowd the center line, and I do feel uncomfortable with it, especially with left-handers, because it feels like my head is crossing right over the line. I rode with a VERY GOOD rider who told me to not think about what's happening in the lane coming toward you, and only concentrate on what I am doing. I can see that this is important for cornering, but I can only "ignore" the other lane if I'm well within the lane I'm supposed to be. That being said, I'm trying to corner within narrower limits if I stay well within my lane, which should improve my cornering.
    I do find it quite difficult to ignore oncoming traffic, and I don't think it's particularly safe, however. That's a button that I just can't shut off. Even if I am aware of the oncoming traffic, I'm not sure what I could do even if I did see someone coming into my lane while I'm in the middle of a banked turn.
     
  13. Maggot

    Maggot New Member

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    Please remember. On the street a late apex is much better than an early apex. This allows a view farther around the corner then the early apex thus giving you more time to decide your line and see further around the corner for obstacles and trash on the surface.

    Be safe.
     
  14. jayzonk

    jayzonk New Member

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    Yes, a latex ape is much better. :congratulatory:

    Still wondering if I should get a used SV650 to work on this stuff, or if I've "graduated" from that, and can use my Speed Triple to accomplish the same thing.
     
  15. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    Kinda sorta.

    Watching other objects, you tend to go toward them, which is bad. "You go where you look." Then there is object fixation, where you worry about it and cannot take your eyes off of it.

    However, you cannot afford to ignore anything. You are in fact in danger 100% of the time on the motorcycle. If you get hit you may die. From the 17 year old topping out his Mustang and losing control, or the drunk driver, either of which may go all the way across the road. Then there is the guy who doesn't maintain his car. He does the right thing and he brakes in order to do the turn slowly, but his caliper seizes and the car steers right into you!

    When I cross the road at lights and sidewalks, I assume that the person still approaching the intersection hasn't checked their brake fluid in ten years. That is your approach for walking near traffic and riding in traffic.

    You see these accidents on the news every single day where people get hit by cars. They call them "accidents" but there is no such thing as an accident. There is cause and effect. You don't know the cause, so always look for the worst effect.

    Your buddy's advice makes sense but it needs an addendum: You do need to concentrate on your riding but you have peripheral vision and should be using it constantly to gauge location, direction, and speed of everything around you.

    As for being able to react, we probably all have that nightmare. But preparation takes you 90% there to making the best move possible in a bad situation.
     
  16. Veefer Madness

    Veefer Madness New Member

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    Bad Billy is right. You simply cannot learn this in a book outside of maybe reading something like Nick Ianotch's (sp?)Sport Riding Techniques and every time you ride focus on ONE thing, for example maintenance throttle or looking further ahead than you normally do. The simplest way to improve is follow somebody who knows what they are doing. The tricky part is finding somebody who will ride at a pace that's slightly above your comfort zone (not way over your head) and follow his line and trust your tires. Seek first to be smooth. You'll never be fast until you are smooth.

    Without a doubt, the best way to improve is on a track, and the best bike to improve quickly on is something like a 250 Ninja or 300 Honda, preferably scuffed and with frame sliders and with you wearing FULL leathers. But you can improve on a VFR on a track too if you have the right attitude (as in, let the game come to you). No matter what you ride you will improve more in one day on the track than you will in a whole riding season fucking around on Canadian streets.

    Think about it this way: say you were a kid and I was a hockey coach teaching you how to shoot a wrist shot. I wouldn't get you to take one shot and then say come back next week and you can take another shot. I'd get you to do it over and over and over until the repetition created muscle memory. Riding a sport bike well is a sport and the same principle applies.
     
  17. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Knight will probably have some great tips on how to avoid getting high sticked or whacked with a puck by playing nothing but broom ball.
     
  18. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti Member

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    ^^^^
    This! And what others have said.

    Simply put getting on the track will allow for learning the books will only tell you about. Read them and soak it in, then get on the track.

    I spent 15 years riding and the last six of them riding ONLY on the track doing track days. Well two of the first were on my 97 VFR and I still rode on the street. Sold the VFR, bought a 1994 Yamaha TZ125 and learned to ride a two-stroke road racing bike. The last four years of my riding were 'track only' on the TZ. Simply put I learned more about how to ride a motorcycle in those four years than all the previous years prior. They simply do not compare. The TZ could do things no other bike I rode could do and it was scary fast in the turns. I wasn't the fastest but I smoked (no pun intended) much larger bikes in the turns and disappeared and when done right, they wouldn't catch me on the big straight because I had enough lead time to get to turn one first:smile:

    I am bike less right now. I had a bunch of crap fell on me in life and seasons change, but if/ when I throw my legs over two-wheels again I plan on returning to the track. If you have that opportunity, don't throw it away. You will really learn how to ride and find your imitations. Its a great opportunity.

    Enjoy!

    BZ

    p.s. Gator, the KTM 390 makes me hard LOL!
     
  19. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    I read many of the sport bike books. When I bought my bike, soon after getting over the sheer fear of being on the street, I was immediately able to apply the techniques to the street.


    Spending all of that time at the track is turning the motorcycle into your biggest hobby, and putting more time and expense into it than anything else in life. While there is universal agreement that the track is the ideal place for learning, with the best mentors and lowest risk of injury, going to the track for a full season, or otherwise taking a course there is just not practical. I think the nearest track is two hours away from me, an entire day adventure. The motorcycle is not a lifestyle for everyone here. Everyone has their story, their family and obligations. Me, I play several instruments and write books. I find that a good balance in life is to keep the motorcycle dead even with all of these.

    In terms of what you and Veefer Madness are talking about, after work I hit the street several days a week for 1-2 hours. Then I get out on the weekend just the same. Every time I leave the drive I am repeating and completely reevaluating my skills.

    Would you consider that you never truly studied riding techniques until you got to the track and decided that studying was going to be your focus? I study every day, on my local streets, on my own terms. Since many people are simply not going to make it to the track, I think we need to help encourage people with mental methods for always considering the street a serious classroom, rather than just a fun place to hit the gas and zone out. For some reading this, when you say, "Spend X time at the track", if they think, "okay nice but that isn't going to happen", they must be given an alternate path to follow for learning.



    I think the loss of the 2-cycle is probably damaging to our learning. The on/off nature of it demands that one learn more about what the engine is and the rider's interaction with it. The 4-cycle, and its associated weight, gives more of the car-like momentum to a bike, removing some of the true connection between rider and bike.

    That is truly rotten. I encourage you (if you have not) to study finance. Listen to Dave Ramsey on the radio and read the associated books. You will find that people with debts of hundreds of thousands got out of debt, with astoundingly low salaries. I wish you well, know that you will bounce right back, and look forward to pics of your next ride.

    What a beautiful bike! That would have been a great bike, but Honda support here of all things is terrible. I would probably have to become a mechanic to support that beautiful orange bike, ugh.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
  20. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    BZ now knows how big a fool he really is, I hope. Gosh, only 15 years experience? What a punk!
     
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