rust & pro-bolt

Discussion in '7th Generation 2010-Present' started by Befbever, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    Seems like not many - if any - VFR1200 owners seem to have this problem but here's a write-up of sorts anyway.

    A few pics perhaps to make things clearer? I ride all year and my Honda doesn't seem built for that. Yeah yeah I know, I could do plenty to protect the bolts etc. but after 3 Aprilias I seem to have forgotten it was ever needed.
    Don't get me wrong: I ride the Honda pretty much out of the box, i.e I don't have any suspension mods (except a new shock under warranty) and that's a first in many years but it can also mean I'm getting old. Whatever.

    Here's a few things so you get the picture:

    Honda top box base plate:

    onbike.jpg

    Front meaning brake rotors, ABS rotor and caliper surroundings:

    front.jpg

    caliper_before.jpg

    Rear disc and ABS rotor:

    disc_rotor_before.jpg
     
  2. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    A few pics are from last year and 8 months of winter have passed since then so it all looks a lot worse now.

    Before you think I'm dissing the Honda, let me just tell you that the bike itself hasn't missed a beat in those 3 years.

    So, on to the solution to at least part of this problem. Haven't found a solution for the ABS rotors apart from OE new ones. Remember this bike needs to be on the road at all times as I have no other mode of transport. I did all this in my vacation time.

    pro_bolt_packages.jpg
     
  3. Scubalong

    Scubalong Official Greeter?

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    Wow that is :crazy:
    I don't think any bike would last if they expose to snow and salt.
     
  4. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    I do have the stainless steel (SS from now on) banjos but I would rather wait a little and have SS brake lines installed as well. That'll happen in September when next I have time off.

    Oh and let me just tell you that the price for all this SS was around $260 at the current rate so I didn't get everything. Pro-bolt doesn't have everything either btw.

    Meanwhile I took the paint off of the base plate which was exceptionally easy to do as there was hardly any on it. I painted it using Hammerite, a paint that can be applied directly on rust and will not rust again. You only see the edges of the base plate anyway but it was really bothering me.

    platebefore.jpg

    platepainted.jpg

    painted_onbike.jpg

    bolts.jpg
     
  5. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    Calipers:

    caliper_after.jpg

    caliper_oe_bolts.jpg
     
  6. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    Rear disc:

    disc_rotor_before.jpg

    disc_stainless.jpg

    disc_oe_bolts.jpg

    Watch out as these are CBR1000RR rotor bolts and they are a little longer. The real tension starts when you are using the torque wrench. Pro-bolt advises about half the torque Honda does but I nearly filled my pants using the torque Honda recommends (the same as the front calipers) and wound up using almost that, in combination with thread locking agent. Let me just say that it's way more than I felt comfortable doing by hand.
     
  7. Scubalong

    Scubalong Official Greeter?

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    NCB replace all his bolts and nuts on his bike with Titanium, cost him closes to 700 clamps.
    Look like you will be busy for a while Befbever. Hurry get it done so you can head down to the Miditerienate or Montpelier
    :smile:
     
  8. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    You are of course correct. However, if the ABS rotor hadn't start rusting chances are the rest hadn't either. Rusty caliper bolts would be quite normal as you take them off frequently. Yet my Brembo caliper bolts never rusted and I had to dismantle those calipers a few times as pistons got stuck due to the salt.

    Let me just say that the last bike that rusted so badly was a Suzuki RF600. Within 2 months and all was re-painted/powder coated under warranty.
    My Triumph Tiger had copper grease on nearly every bolt I touched. From factory!
     
  9. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    I wish but my wife hates France. No idea why. Women huh?
    I don't like titanium ever since I drilled out 2 'titanium' bolts with a drill bit made for steel.
    And as if I would feel the difference in weight!
    In my wallet, sure.
     
  10. Scubalong

    Scubalong Official Greeter?

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  11. Volfy

    Volfy New Member

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    Even stainless steel hardware will rust given enough salt and water exposure. We do subsea equipment at work and even though the equipment is all SS, we still bolt zinc ingots to the submerged assembly to act as sacrificial anodes.

    I remember riding in the middle of Feb back when I lived in the rust belt of the northern USA, but I only did so when the roads were clear of snow and ice. Even then, one time I hit a patch of black ice on a freeway, which sent my rear end fishtailing. Talk about pucker factor! I recovered but decided not to ride anymore in the dead of Winter unless I was absolutely sure the road have been dry for a long while.

    Hats off to you for braving the element, but that's a tall order to ask of any bike. I've had an '08 RSV1000R Factory that I could not imagine taking out of the garage on anything but a gorgeous sunny day. Granted the Italians love to use machined aluminum pieces where stamped steel would've sufficed on even the most expensive Japanese bike, but I doubt it would've faired much better than the VFR over several long harsh Winters.
     
  12. Volfy

    Volfy New Member

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    Shouldn't that be Brit or Briton?:cool:
     
  13. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    Yeah I know I know: the SS will eventually get contaminated for sure.

    For the record: I don't ride in snow if I can help it. But salt? Always ridden in that. I used to use vaseline to keep the salt from eating my bike. But the Aprilia years have spoiled me. I had an accident at work when I had the Triumph and when my injury was healed enough, the Tiger had blisters on the engine paint. It was one year old. Stood still for 2 months with salt on everything.
    The RSV '08 factory is a bike I can only dream of to own. Wouldn't fair well in winter I fear. Aprilia's management is totally different from in the Rotax days.
    When I had the 1st gen Tuono I never took it out in winter. But I did ride the Futura as well then and I did that for 6 years. Maybe the salt got worse (or better if you drive a car) or the winters longer.

    My Aprilia mechanic does tell me that poorly painted bolts are to be found on many bikes these days, also on Aprilias.
    The paint on the base plate was pathetic. Don't tell me that was the salt as well that high-up, I knew instantly when I started sanding: that is just poor quality.

    Brit or Briton yes. And no, she's not, she's local.
     
  14. Scubalong

    Scubalong Official Greeter?

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    Yes you are correct :thumbsup:
     
  15. Volfy

    Volfy New Member

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    I have to agree on the ABS ring made of plain stamped steel is pitiful. IMHO, anything on the wheel rotating assembly and near the wheel hubs should be made of better corrosion resistant material, since they are right there near contact with the road. Then again, I have seen the same rotor bolts and ABS rings showing signs of rust on a used K1300S here in Houston, TX. Now the previous owner might have ridden it all over the US, but still.

    The rusty smears on your brake rotors though, I think, might be deposits from your brake pads. The rotors themselves are SS, I'm sure.
     
  16. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    Voify, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. I don't mind stamped steel or whatever material the ABS rings are: they should be less corrosion-sensitive. I can show you pics of my cast iron full-floating discs that rusted every night after a bit of a moist day but one revolution would clear the rust and there never was any other rust to be spotted. That was on the Futura btw and those were Spieglers.

    My theory on the brake rotors however is that the rust is not from the pads but from the rotors themselves. Which IMHO would be excellent as that only means they are great brakes. Especially the rear one seems to have more iron in it than I would have expected.
    It's just a theory. I'm not a metallurgist.

    I'd like to point out that since bikes have been banned from the bicycle shed at work, my bikes have been standing in the rain all day for some 6 years or so. Now we (in winter "I") have a specific bike shed. That means lubing the throttle grip and other controls often but nothing else suffered. Not on other bikes anyway.

    TX being the home of AF1, my favorite shop and awesome people. Often wished I lived close to it, although that would have really hurt my wallet!
     
  17. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    Oh here it is. This pic was taken after a well-overdue wash after a particularly long time in winter and 6 years or 70k miles. Any rust on the cast iron rotors is from the wash itself.
    There is rust to be seen, but not like on the Honda.

    frontwheel.jpg
     
  18. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

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    When I used to live up in nj, I used to ride 12 months a year, one of my pet-peeves is the corrosion you showed us! My current viffer was exposed to 6 years or so of riding in salt and experienced none of the rust you have. Its a while ago since I have been in sunny FL for 15+ years, but I do recall, hooking a garden hose up to the indoor laundry sink and used to run the hot water to clean the bike off if it had excessive salt. I hit ice only once in my 20+ years off riding up there. I do remember the clear coat on the wheels of other motorcycles I owned up there getting ruined along with the fork lowers...Salt creeped under the clear coat...

    You see corrosion issues on HD bike where the allen head bolts rust in the hexagonal part. I heard you could use clear nale polish to coat them. If I have to do this, I would rather paint my wifes toe-nails. Talk aboot a drag...
     
  19. Volfy

    Volfy New Member

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    Befbever, I believe you are right. Here's the front end of my '08 RSVR1000R Factory with the same quality rotors and hardware. The original owner that sold it to me bought and had it maintained at AF1.

    A lot of folks here in the States hold a cynical view on Italian reliability. Never owned a Ducati so I can't comment, but my ape was about as reliable as any Japanese bike, though it did have a few quirky bits. The level of attention to detail puts the best from Japan and even a lot of BMWs to shame. Every piece on that Italian Goddess was a work of art. I am a fair weather rider down here in the warm south, so I never do get to hear about how weather resistant different bikes are. It's refreshing. Thanks for sharing.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    Ridervfr, that's interesting info as VFR800's are bikes you see a lot here. In fact there was one I ran into often on my commute and that guy was hard to keep up with when roads got busy. Until I had the room that is.
    Never in 3 years have I seen another VFR1200 on the road.
    I rode over a wide spot of black ice for a week once between X-mas and New Year. No salt was thrown then and there was no way around it. You couldn't even stand on it! I never fell but I can do without such experiences obviously.
    I have no hot water available outside in winter and any water I use would freeze overnight making the pavement slippery so that never was an option. Sometimes dirt and salt will just stay there for weeks or even months. It's never been any different in 33 years of riding and the last 25 or so of commuting by bike.

    Yeah I can cover the bike in Tectyl (a salt-protecting sort of spray) but it'll be brown for 8 months and I can't use that on anything near the brakes.


    Voify, my first bike was a Ducati and it kept me away from Italians for the next 20 years. The Falco was what put me back on Italians. Hey an Austrian engine and Japanese electrics: what can go wrong huh? As it turned out, a Nippondenso coil crapped out but that was all. The shop had a hard time selling it after I traded it in for the Futura because no-one believed the excellent state it was in with that many miles on it.

    Aprilias in general are works of art although the Honda does have some great features too. But no braided lines, nothing looks CNC'd, still using rubber grommets like my first CB750's etc. Not exactly what you'd expect at that price.
    No reliable shops available either anymore (well done, Honda!) and hard to find parts as a result. Again not what I expected if I'm honest. Triumph seemed to have it covered until I needed 3 cover gaskets to just replace a poorly designed clutch and I had to leave my bike there for a week. So much for that illusion.

    And now this rust? No that's not what I expected 3 years ago when I bought it. And for tax reasons, I have another 2 years to go.

    I dropped it twice last winter, once on each side so apart from the fact that they're pretty worthless used (like this), the rust is not gonna help when the time comes to trade it in for say, an RC8R. Got a good price for the Tiger 1050. So not expecting that with this bike.

    That's not mentioning my concerns on how well the ABS will keep functioning considering the state of one of the components of the C-ABS system.

    Sorry I sound like a disgruntled customer now. I'm not really - I still love riding it - but stuff like this is enough to keep me away from Honda when the next bike needs to be purchased.

    'needs' yes. If I had the cash and space I would keep them all. But I've had 2 bikes before and my wallet just won't allow that. In life you have to make choices and 25 years ago I had to choose between a car and a bike. Now that I can afford both if I wanted to, I'd still rather not chuck money at a car as due to the tax benefits I ride for free if you do the math.
     
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