stage 3 air box mods

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by CandyRedRC46, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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  2. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    no shit? That's awesome!
     
  3. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    yup i wish i had the time to really stick with the team, but 2 jobs, a girlfriend, and bike dont really mix well with all the sae meetings. i usually go to all the meeting till exams start and then fall off, till next semester. it is a lot of fun, and learning and free engineering training though. just no time to make money, study for classes, play with bikes, get laid, and sae at the same time... just not possible lol
     
  4. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    only solution I can offer -

    make the girlfriend get two jobs

    Good luck. I'll be really excited to hear if you follow through with the valve job and how it turns out.
     
  5. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Honda Bulletin for 2005 CRF450X Closed Course Competion Modifications… | CRF450X

    If you click on the picture you can see an example what is recommended by HRC for airbox modifications for a CRF450X. HRC has issued a whole slew of competition bulletins that indicate similar modifications to airboxes for other models that were originally required to meet EPA emissions and noise regulations for DOT homologation. For ram air, where pressurized airboxes are utilized, they typically replace the entire airbox. Although this goes against what even the gods of VFRW have been espousing, modifying the airbox and jetting, yes, even the needles, can lead to an improvement in performance, it has a lot to do with who is doing the tuning. Back in the day, they never even ran airboxes and they made substantially more power than the stock versions that did.

    Just wanted to post this to stick up for the Honda engineers that seem to have taken a bit of a beating in this thread. They have been doing this for a long time and the products they sell through HRC have won many a championship.
     
  6. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    haha yeah thatd work too.
    if the head work happens, it wont be anytime soon.
    maybe a year or two down the line.
    currently dealing with stator/rr problems right now.
    then im gonna try out rapid bike.
    then head work when time/money permit.
     
  7. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    cool stuff norcal. dont you wish it was that easy for vfr's?
    like if there was a vfr800r and a vfr800x model and honda wrote a step by step instruction on how to remove the restrictions on it.
     
  8. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    that would be sweet.

    The Bulletin pretty well says the same thing we've been talking about. Changing camshafts, exhaust systems, etc. The whole thing as a system designed to work together... :boink:

    I wish I understood the rest of what he was babbling. Beating engineers?
     
  9. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    I have been pretty hard on the engineers...
     
  10. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    there needs to be more women in engineering

    [​IMG]
     
  11. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    Engineering girls... There's like 4 or 5 of them on the entire campus. And they're batshit crazy, and don't put out. :(
     
  12. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    You don't need to replace the cams, all you need is to have a reputable machine shop notch your stock cam gears so that they are adjustable, open up the airbox, get a PC3 and a nice flowing filter and have a reputable tuner tune it on a dyno. The adjustable cam gears will allow you to get around the midrange dip that Tink was repeating that someone had told him. It isn't difficult to do, and it really isn't that expensive either. If you really wanna take it a step further, insulate the airbox and the bottom of the tank and the fuel lines. If you really wanna go for it, clip the head and boost the compression a little, this will help the low end response.

    You already have the emissions removed, the PC3, air filter and exhaust. The cam gears will pull it all together. The adjustable cam gears are even beneficial for the stock engine and exhaust combination. The stock valve timing and fueling is super conservative on these bikes due to the emissions requirements. This will also eliminate the vtec dip.....
     
  13. vfourbear

    vfourbear New Member

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    Interesting that after 70 some posts this thread starts to get somewhere. Yeah I do pay attention sometimes. Hahaha
     
  14. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Before you can have input into this thread, you must post at least 5 links to irrelevent information, submit 2 copies of your fingerprints, 5 full color pictures of your penis and jab yourslef in the eye with a sharp stick at least twice and be able to teach quantum physics to first graders with demonstrated results. You should know the rules by now......this isn't a democracy here.
     
  15. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    Is it really that easy to notch the factory cams? That sounds like a lot of fabrication. Do you remember how much you advanced and/or retarded each cam? I'm not sure about insulating the air box, because it's material doesn't really conduct heat, but insulating the bottom of the gas tank sounds like an awesome idea. I'll have to add that to my list.

    What I wanted to do with the cams was mohawk's idea, on the http://vfrworld.com/forums/general-vfr-discussions/40434-98-vfr800-motor-upgrade-question.html page. Where he had a set of cams ground based on the rc45 specs. it dyno'd 5 hp which sounds decent, but having cams reground, especially four, would be awfully expensive for just 5 hp.

    So your idea of just adjusting the factory cam timing sounds great, if its worth at least 5 hp, and a much better power band.
     
  16. 91talon

    91talon New Member

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    I'm not too sure how insulating the airbox would really do that much on our bikes, since they really pull in the air that sits under the gas tank for the most part. It might make a couple degrees worth of difference, but nothing drastic. Insulating the fuel lines and bottom of the gas tank are a good idea, though.
     
  17. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    South Park - "...and it's gone" - YouTube

    lol we were getting some where...... and......... its gone.
    at least i thought my air filter comparison was helpful... :rolleyes:
     
  18. Scubalong

    Scubalong Official Greeter?

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    :hss: NCB is back
    :stickhorse::stickhorse::stickhorse::stickhorse::funky::funky::funky::funky::funky:
     
  19. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    You don't notch the cams, you notch the gears. The gears come off the end of the camshaft. They are held on with two bolts each.

    I don't have a picture of my cam gears, but a machine shop machined them for $45.00, thus making them adjustable. Click on the link below, if you look at the gear on the left, you will see that the gear can be adjusted (rotated) over a range, and not just pinned at the timing mark Honda used to pass 50 state emissions standards.

    Adjustable Cam Sprockets/ Falicon Crankshaft Components, Inc. 727.797.2468

    i did have the cams welded and reground to a slightly different profile, and I also had extensive porting and combustion chamber reshaping performed, so my timing won't work for your application. You will have to experiment with the overlap to achieve the best results. You will never see the full benefit of any modifications unless you do this. That is why most people experience disappointment after opening the airbox, putting a high flow air filter, installing a PC3, eliminating the cat, and installing lighter and more efficient cans. You can also experiment with different length velocity stacks, I ended up liking the feel of long stacks and having the cams degreed more for mid to upper power. If you clip the head and raise your compression a point or so, this will also work well with longer stacks, as this makes more hit off the botttom. If you are into the FL highway drag racing scene, then the short stacks you have are better for top end performance, while giving away a little on the bottom. mixing the stack heights provides the middle ground, hence Honda uses two short and two tall.

    This isn't rocket science, it's all been done before. Just not here.
     
  20. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Regarding the airbox and tank heat shielding, I'm not going to debate whether or not this is gonna make 10 extra HP, because it obviously won't. but if you look at the extent to which good engine construtors from every form of motorsports go to eliminate or mitigate heat, every little bit of temperature control has a positive benefit. I do know that heat is the enemy and the engine I'm messing around with now makes liberal use of lubricity and thermal control coatings, because I want to see just how much can be gained from non-mechanical applications to enhance thermal efficiency. I do test and I have been lucky to be brought along by some pretty sharp people. These people are behind quite a few of the fastest podium step machines from AMA to WERA.

    Again this is all part of a total package, not just one individual mod. Making changes one at a time, and dynoing after each change, is cost prohibitve and frankly I find it to be ridiculous. Do you really have to prove to everybody that something works? Does it really matter what people think?, I say no and I sleep pretty well at night. I've never seen one MotoGP, WSBK, WSS, Moto3, or Moto2 team post a single dyno chart, EVER. There's a reason for that, it's more important that it works in the real world.
     
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