What's Up In Motorcycling These Days?

It was asked that this thread be kept civil. After reading a couple of more posts, it apears this thread is going to get out of hand. Personally, I don't think Legs was calling anyone ignorant, but apparently it was taken as being such. Yes, we are all entitled to our opinoins regardless of what we ride or sell or whatever. Please keep in mind that we, and I mean motorcyclists, or stereotyped all the time. I will refrain from mentioning those stereotypes here. We will not, however, turn this forum into a place to bash one another. It is counterproductive to our community.

So, please, when you post, or read a post and reply, keep in mind that words typed on a screen do not have the same meaning behind them that the spoken word does becuase you cannot "hear" the emotion of the statements. One can "read" into it what one wants to. But it may not mean what one thinks. KC-10FE clearly stated it was a rant as well as at the end, he admitted to drinking while posting it. Do I hold that against him? No. Have I ever said ranted about something when I have been drunk. Probably. Does it matter if he even drinks or not? No. At least not to me. It does not affect me directly. Someone wants to cal me an idiot? Fine. It's a name. Doesn't mean I'll answer to it and it doesn't mean it's true. In fact, I just earlier tonight I was called a biker dude. "Stereotypically" that catagory falls to HD riders, but it is not wholly untrue as I am a biker. I ride a bike. Technically, a motorcycle, which technically makes me a motrocyclist.

Final words.....We are a group of people with a common interest, be it VFR specific, or motorcycling in general. There is no reason to be uncivil in what we say here. We are here to benefit each other with our experiences and out knowledge. It's ok to rant, it's ok to joke and kid around, it's ok to debate, which is encouragesd. But it is not ok to impune the knowledge or ability of another publicly, expecially if you have never met or know that person.

 

Words this true are seldom spoken...

KC-10 FE out...
lane:

 

Wow! Interesting thread! I am not looking for more division, but KC-10 FE has a point. I just had a conversation Sunday with my Beemer friend Dean.

I had asked Dean why does it seem BMW is the only company right now with a focus on diversity in bikes that are practical and are aimed at the motorcycle enthusiast. And that answered my own question. Most BMW riders are enthusiasts who are less concerned with "Image"

Let us explore this idea of image.

Motorcycling right now is in a renassiance, no question, but what is driving it? Image!

Our beloved Honda has got caught up in trying to compete with the liter-bike craze. Look at all the marketing. Suzuki "Now you can LOOK like Matt Mladin by purchasing the very same bike they race on!" Forget about if you can ride the damn thing or not. That's not what's important to the tourist/ posuer anyway. The market goes were the image sells. Our passion is full of tourists and poseurs who want the look. I remeber when Honda was the dominant trend setter and catered to us enthusiasts, the 90's are a great example.

If you don't agree with my image statement; we drive the image point home then.

Harley, everyone knows they make a quality cruiser, especially those of you in VFR World who own one. But what drives Harley sales? It's image, no if's and's, or but's about it! How many of you know or have met someone who once the Harley was in their hands, quit wearing a helmet, quit waving at other riders, only wear black leather, act like a badass, etc. I know you have because we have threads that poke fun at that stuff! Why? because they are a tourist/poseur!

And therein lies the heart of the matter, At this time, we have alot of people in our passion who have alot of money, or alot of credit, and they are driving the sales and market focus of our beloved passion. This is one of the prices we pay for living in a capatalist society. And I would not want it any other way my VFR brethren. I have shaken my magic 8 ball...and the future looks great. The 8 ball showed me the day when the market will shift back to us enthusiasts, and Honda will deliver us machines that we have longed for, and they will take there rightful place as the dominant motorcycle company once again! And as for all you tourists and poseurs, O-yes, the 8 ball has your number too! We enthusiasts will be there to buy your bikes at a discount when you have grown tired of you high insurance and bike payments. You squids who mock our VFR as slow, yet a glance at your tires tell us everything (no corner wear and burnouts only). We are going to take your liter-bikes and repla-racers at rock bottom prices! We will take these machines to our favorite track days and set them free to do what they were meant to! To ride nad ride hard! Not for burnouts at the local Wawa or Dairy Queen!

The time is near my enthusiast brothers and sisters! It's why we love the VFR. It is the ultimate STREET bike.

"The average man does not get pleasure out of an idea because he thinks it is true; he thinks it is true because he gets pleasure out of it".
H.L. Mencken
BZ

 

Personally, I don't think any one company can ever be the best. Nor can any one company be the worst. They are all about the same. For every story there is about a bad Ford, there is one about a bad Chev. Brand loyalty is a thing of the past. My one grandfather would not buy anything but a Ford, my other one would not buy anything but a Buick. They both used the same reasoning. Today that does not work very well. Too many variables now.

 

Well said Bubba
*applause*

 

I'll have to agree w/ Chris, well said Bubba.:wink:

I think we are in a time where a lot of companies are sitting on their laurels, by sticking with what makes them money(or maybe quitting the the things that don't). The current craze of people customizing everything may be partially to blame. Manufactures know that people will make their product into their own creation by changing it. They themselves are profitting from this market by offering there own aftermarket lines. HD has perfected it, Honda & yamaha are nipping @ there heals in that department( the VTX has more factory options than any other cruiser out their). BMW has come into there own over the last decade & a half or so by diversfying & letting there engineers have a little fun. How many years did they stick with the flying brick, great bike dependable versatle but was very dated & boring when it was retired. Much like Kawasaki's Concours a bike very similar in styling & function to the flying brick that after 21 years in production is finally getting a make over. The beloved VFR may be in this same catagory, they know the people that own them will more than likely keep buying them & may attract a more mature new market following. But its not flashy & glam like all the new racer relica's so the young market isn't looking @ them as a first option(most of the younger guys on this forum seem to have fallen ass backwards into a VFR & ended up loving it, its not something they sought out. Though the new R/W/B generates some interest). Us older guys say from mid thirties to mid sixties+ know what we like & go out look for it, research it, look @ most if not all comparable bikes & decide whats best for us based on finances, IMAGE, quality, dependabilty etc. KC had a point of a poor entry level market, he's right good entry level machines are harder & harder to find but they don't sell. This has given rise to alot of the newer import brands from China, Korea etc. Possibly sacrificing build quality for inexpensive, cheap entry level equipment more prone to generate impulse buying. How does a large company that is profit driven compete w/ a small companies that can drastically under cut them on price without sacrificing their reputation, its probably more profitable to sell them peices & parts than to compete with them. It boils down to whats hot @ the moment gets all the attention; whats not will either fade away or remain stagnant til' it comes back into favor w/ the masses not just the select few.

Just a side note, myself being of larger stature than most; the machines I like(more sport oriented) keep getting smaller & harder for me to ride. The few that that fit me well are the Yamaha FJ(no longer produced in the platform I like but the FJR is on my wish list as well), The Suzuki Bandit, the VFR, ST's & just about everything BWW makes except the 650, some of the newer longer wheel based Buells. If its italian whether car or bike as pretty as they are I'm just never gonna fit or be comfortable. By rights I should be one of the masses on a cruiser, but if I can only have one bike I'm gonna have one that can do 150mph all day long without the pistons flying through the fuel tank

 

KC--I can understand your frustration with your beloved Honda, they have taken alot of heat focusing on sales figures and rounding out models to make them user friendly. ie:linked brakes etc.. I can respect your points about some of the corporations as well.

I really only want to comment on Yamaha in particular as it pertains to your premise. I ran a Yamaha/Triumph/Victory/MotoGuzzi store from 97'-01' in Virginia. In 97' before the R1 introduction I was in Vegas for the dealer meeting and ended up dining with the lead designer of the R1 and his team as well as the National Sales Mgr and a few other folks. I lost my peeps and am not shy and was dying to talk to these people. Most of the discussion pertained to the attitude of "No Compromise" (too lazy to research his name)the designer went to great lengths in English and Japanese to focus on the edge that the R1 was pushing. They also openly admitted that they would perhaps never catch Honda in sales, but would have the more loyal following due to their razor focus and branding.
The introduction of the Star line, R6 , the YZ's forever, and Fz1 in 01 also kind of attest to their commitment to not following the crowd.

the other stuff I'm not touching except that I love all bikes (British bike days are the tits!) and some of our best customers and friends were/are Harley riders and video of Sturgis looks like an unbridled blast with the right attitude strapped on. So they have a drink holder, what do I care!!!!

from now on I'm calling it VWD--ound: viffering while drinking!! You aren't alone. :tea:

 

I disagree about BMW riders having no interest in image. In most cases they pay excess money for a motorcycle that would not even be close to being called best in class. They buy for the status as well as the quality which I would never deny. And on to the point of Honda's stagnance as a company- perhaps the All-New CBR600RR is indicative of things to come!

 

haha, yeah you got me there pretty much!

 

I worked for Honda back then and bought 2 Hawk GTs new and still have
one, But we could hardly give one of them away back then. You could still
buy a new left over 89 in 91. We must have sold 10 Hurricanes to every hawk.

 

I can't possibly comprehend how anyone could decipher this statement as INSULTING

Basically, I comprehend this as if we have and express our own opinions, we are IGNORANT! I am not personally insulted or trying to insult anyone here, I am merely trying to defend my right to express my opinions about a subject of which I am extremely passionate-MOTORCYCLES!!!!!

 

I was gonna say something about that... everything I've ever read about it's sales was that they couldnt give them away. I think the Hawk came out before its time.
I'd be interested to know just what percentage of each bike category Honda is capturing, and compare that to it's sales dominance of the past.

 

Gotta agree with you their, imagine the image you project riding a Montauk ?

 

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSE TO THAT ONE!!!!

 

You have to admit this is interesting & the pic is a base model R1200C not a Montauk though the Montauk is built on the same platform. BMW entered the cruiser market by doing there own thing; how many other companies can say that???? I don't neccesarily like all the HD wanna be bikes out there, I say BMW was being very bold & brazen w/ this design. But they should have increased displacment it would have generated more sales, but that might be pushing the old boxer engine beyond its limits w/o adding another couple of cylinders.

 

Stand corrected, above pic is the Montauk. Must agree that BMW have shown errr " courage " releasing such an " Interesting " looking bike on the public.

Sorry I'm not being fair on BMW and while personally think the Montauk nausea inducing Ugly think the R1200S and R1200GS are Funky Cool Ugly.

 

To get back to KC's points. Though he was drunk and pissed some points were well made. I am annoyed that NO company make a bike for me. I used to have an xs1100 and it was great. It was a strong running bike that could pack double without a problem and (for its day) could handle in a corner. It came from the dealership plain but you could buy enough add ons to make it just shy of a goldwing or strip it down for a street racer. I bought the vfr800 and am very happy with it however it does not pack double like the old xs. Why cant a manufacture make an AFFORDABLE bike that can be customized like the old xs? Simple - all those stupid cruisers that wanabees buy (no not all cruiser riders are wanabees) and all those stupid gsxr,etc 600s that squids(no not all 600 riders are squids) buy.
The companies are selling image right now, not functionality that true riders like.

That being said, 99% of the time, I love my vfr because it is as close to a well rounded bike as they come, It just doesn't pack double well.

Of course I guess if I dont like it, I should just start my own company up - whos with me

 

Now every one of you need to go to bed WITHOUT dinner !!! :biggrin:

 

Chris P & tbone 86:

Thank you gentlemen!

BZ

 

DAMN, you just described my brother!!! He bought 2 harleys, and now has tats all over arms and back and wont wear a helmet anymore since he rides a hardley runningson.. NOT A JOKE,.