wobbles

Discussion in 'New Riders' started by rustitution, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. rustitution

    rustitution New Member

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    So this might be a more advanced question but when I took my MSF class a few months ago they taught us things to do to avoid loss of traction with a sudden regain of traction like this entire video right here.

    [video=youtube;xzB6KSlD6ec]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzB6KSlD6ec&feature=player_embedded[/video]

    No I know this is very exaggerated because of the speed and in some cases repetitive loss and regaining of traction very quickly but what is one supposed to do when this happens (It seems like the riders are lifting themselves up off of the bike)?
     
  2. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    I've had several big tank slappers and wobbles in my riding life time. A couple on the track and an on the street. Once when the nice two lane road ended and connected to a clay & gravel road at a 100 mph. Each time I got off the seat and put all my weight on the pegs. This takes your body weight and puts it's below the cg of the bike so you don't have 180lbs high up acting like a pendulum. The higher the weight the more force there is trying to pitch the bike to and fro. Also in stead of solidly grabbing the bars I just open my hand in to a big "C" and let them flop back and forth trying to slow the wobble vs trying to control it. In other words I just try to control the distance they move side to side. The use of the front brake or throttle if your lucky enough to be fast on reaction will redirect some of that force in a different direction and help slow/stop the wobble. But that part is a crap shoot because each wobble has it's own characteristics.

    The main thing you really have to do is try and ride/drive thru it. Keeping the momentum going in a forward direction. Trying to brake or slow up fast usually ends in a crash. It's like a semi when they hit their brakes hard and heavy and the trailer tries to come around. The biggest one on the track was a lock to lock at about 85mph on the exit of a carrousel at Nelson Ledges. The front tire will skip and slid across the asphalt at those speeds. I just stood up,put my knees against the tank, which acted as a dampener and let the bars do what they wanted.

    It's a reaction thing. I don't think you can really practice for it. At least I wouldn't cause you have a 50/50 chance of coming out of it unscathed.
     
  3. jethro911

    jethro911 Member

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    I would agree with that.
    I will never forget the dat my duck tried to throw me off at the track in a sharp right hander. I was a bit too agressive on the throttle mid corner and the back stepped out and then regained traction. I found myself over the tank looking at the front wheel. Hmm this is an interesting view but if I keep looking at my tire I will be in the field soon and then the hospital shortly there after. So I got my feet back on the pegs, and started scrubbing speed before running off into the grass. Don't know how I held it together but I just did. Perhaps it was my off road experience, some blind luck or pure force of will who knows but I pulled it out, rode off the track and then rejoined the action without missing a beat.
     
  4. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Great advice ! The pavement at the Ledges--where it's all "the pits"-- is often sub-par in one section or another, so you could run into suspension problems for sure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  5. highway star

    highway star New Member

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    Doesn't take much to get the "wobble" started and it's not just inherent with corners. Once saw a kid racing his dad's GSXR on the local 1/8th drag strip. As soon as he left the start, front end started wobbling, very bad, did so about half way down the track, it eventually straightened out. When he came back to the pits, he was shaking. Worst wobble I've seen without wrecking, in real time.
     
  6. misti

    misti New Member

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    Best thing you can do when you encounter a wobble or tank slapper is relax your arms on the bars and squeeze the tank with your legs. Get off the seat a bit if you can but don't try to fight or control the wobble. Here is a link to an article I wrote for Motorcycle Mojo Magazine about tank slappers. I hope it helps :)

    http://www.mistihurst.com/files/J_F_07.pdf

    Cheers,
    Misti
     
  7. rustitution

    rustitution New Member

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    wow awesome ready thank a million Misti, need to find a school around here that has a slide bike so I can practice that.
     
  8. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    Misti good article. Sounds like your having fun racing. Your right about throttle and brake control. You can jab on the brakes but you can't jam on the brakes without consequences. Same for throttle control. The only brakes worth using are the fronts. The rears create more problems than they cure, IMO. I learned that you have to ride thru the problem so it doesn't turn in to a crash, if you can for the most part. Enjoy racing and no more high sides. :soapbox: sorry....................
     
  9. Mohawk

    Mohawk New Member

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    Yeah what misti said for a wobble. But most of the stuff in the video you chose were front (braking) or rear (accelerating) end slides. As per the guy with the Duc attack, most people instinctively react & the first thing that enters your brain is close the throttle becasue for a rear slide it was over use of same that started it. Then before they realise it the next thing people say was the back found traction & then xyz happened. WRONG

    The rear did NOT find traction you granted it traction by closing the throttle & stopping the wheel spin. This then allowed the wheel which was now travelling sideways beside the bike to grip in a sideways direction, this is what causes the classic high side where the forward energy of the bike is transmitted sideways through the tyre & up & over the rider goes.

    You can experiment with this in the comfort & safety of your driveway. Put bike on its wheels & have someone on your side hold one handlebar just to stop it falling over, or rest it on a stick. Now kick it sideways as hard as you can & tell me what happens. Wait I'll save you some repairs. The wheels which are NOT designed to roll sideways, grip the ground & the bike pivots around them, or in other words it falls over. Now image you had the front tyre travelling at 80mph rolling as intended & that you were holding the rear of the bike up & out at 30-45 degrees to one side & then dropped it ! What do you think will happen next ? Rear tyre grips tarmac & flips bike sideways end over end Oops

    That is the classic highside. When you see the racing gods cornering with the rear wheel out of line & spinning, they have exceeded the limits of grip & by NOT closing the throttle & keeping the rear wheel spinning the bike will actually turn tighter as the rear drifts wide. BUT if they exceed the steering lock of the bike, they will lose the ability to steer, so its a fine line to tread & that's why they are riding gods ! I've managed that twice it my life both times by accident & if I'd closed the throttle I would definately have crashed.

    This power steer technique can be used when you have got into a corner just a bit to hot, if you throttle off the steering will atempt to straighten & run you wide & as you are to hot, this is what your instict tells you to do. BUT you should infact give it a little more gas, to increase the rate of turn & provided there is enough grip (there usually is unless you are already dragging everything on the ground) the bike will tighten its turn rate & get you through the corner. This does work, I've used it a few times, its scary & counter intuative, so you have to use your brain to control your wrist, NOT your instinct.

    As far as frontend slides go, the faster you are travelling the easier it is to survive it, but it is just survival by luck usually. Locking up in a straight line with no lean is easy. The problem is when you already have lean like when trail braking into a corner, the time between lockup & flat on your side is a millisecond. I've done this a few times & you can see the gods even have trouble with it. One of the best reasons for modern ABS on bikes IMO. Yes the best riders with the same bikes/brakes can just out brake it, but for the average Joe panic braking when a car pulls out on you that safety net is worth it !!!!

    Have fun, use a track to perfect these skills on an old bike, its cheaper & much safer for you & everyone else. Think about others NOT just yourself before you do anything !

    Or as my favourite saying goes "Don't confuse your intentions with your abilities" :crazy:
     
  10. jugornot

    jugornot New Member

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    Had this happen to me on the street. I was passing a car in the rain. My rear tire was fairly flattened by lots of commuter miles. I swung out to pass and gassed it. The tire started spinning and the rear end stepped out. When it got to the side where the tread wasn't as worn it gained traction and would stand back up. It did this about 6 times and only lasted maybe 3 seconds (forever.) I can see this happening in most of the incidences in the video. 1 the tiress were cold at the beginning of the race. 2 The tires are worn or overheated and are going away. On the street and race track it is a loss of traction that starts the wobble, not to be confused with a tankslapper where the front wheel does something similar. I rode it out as the wobbles were not increasing in amplitude. If you get into a wobble where the amplitude is increasing you have a very small chance of recovery. Standing up lowers the center of gravity and can help. Actually while riding especially in corners you should have very little weight on the handle bar. To do this you can grip the tank with your knees or push down with your feet. Too much weight on the bars can exaggerate a tankslapper. The best way I can explain that is we used to ride at a place called Texas Pond on Ft. Bragg. It has a big open pure dead sand area. There was only two ways to cross it. Either go slow and really grip the bars as you got beat to death by all the holes and ruts. Or gas it get the front end light and let it skip over all the trash. While gassing it the bars would gyrate wildly and really impress the rookies who took it slow. The secret was not to let the front end drop into the mess. Either way tankslapper or wobble nothing works 100% all the time. For the wobble stand up. For the tankslapper unweight the front wheel. Or best solution ride within the confines of traction and you should be OK.


    Oh by the way I replaced my rear tire within 2 days.
     
  11. Jackstand Johnny

    Jackstand Johnny New Member

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    I dont know why people say it's easy to go into a wobble. I've been riding for 5 years now and have never once had a tank slapper or a wobble and thats with a GSXR front end with no stabilizer on my last bike. What would be the benefit of lifting up off the seat? It seems counter intuitive to the situation.
     
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