VFR not starting any help?

Discussion in '6th Generation 2002-2013' started by silverstoneF4i, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. silverstoneF4i

    silverstoneF4i New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    sure apparently my lingo is confusing people..the bike has always turned over it only will fire with the help of starting fluid.. but unless someone has an idea its going to the shop...fuel pump works fuel filter is not clogged but apparently its not getting fuel to run properly..so i have no idea
     
  2. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,120
    Likes Received:
    853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Desert Southwest
    Did anybody unplug the injector harness and then connect it back up with the wrong plugs on the wrong injectors? the injectors would still fire off, but at the wrong time compared to the ignition timing....wet plugs, but the spark plug firing at the wrong time, once enough unburnt fuel got into the cylinder, eventually it would fire, but only until that residual fuel in the cylinder wasn't enough to allow further combustion. Just an idea.
     
  3. rccaulfield

    rccaulfield New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Find the fusebox and check em b4 you send it in! I dont have that model but sum1 who does might help you there- google it sure! Coulkd be a fuel related fuse blown!
     
  4. silverstoneF4i

    silverstoneF4i New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    if someone did that that would be a mean trick lol i hope not.. and yes next time i get the bike in i will check the fuses..i assumed since the bike did everything to start it wasnt a fuse but anything is possible and i never found F1 plug to jump..but i just found out that everything on these bikes is behind the dash so im sure its somewhere in that area..thanks for help
     
  5. silverstoneF4i

    silverstoneF4i New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    well i know im bringing a thread back to life but thought i would update and see if it sounds like a true issue. the bike ended up going to shop and they claim it was just a dead battery and that was effecting the power commander..however when we worked on it the fuel pump would prime pc3 would kick on and the bike would try and start...thought it was a wierd solution let me know
     
  6. Jeremy Sell

    Jeremy Sell New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Any update on what happend here? I am in the same place as you.

    I fried a fuse (the 30amp between the harness and the red terminal of the battery)
    Replaced the fuse.

    Now the bike wont start.

    Context:
    Replaced battery
    Replaced fuse
    Check other fuses (starter, lights, fuel pump)
    Kill switch in right position
    Gearbox in Neutral
    Bike on center stand
    Turn key in ignition
    Fuel pump primes
    Starter clicks
    Bike cranks
    Bike does not fire up and run.

    Any ideas? If I need a new RR would that prevent the bike from firing up?
     
  7. VIFFER RIDER

    VIFFER RIDER New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Socal
    Map
    I don’t know if you’re in the SoCal area but I have a spare RR if you need to test it. It was removed from my 02 Viffer and replaced with a upgraded one.
     
  8. Jeremy Sell

    Jeremy Sell New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Appreciate the offer. Im based in Salt Lake City. Would a bad RR prevent the bike from firing up? It cranks but wont fire up and run.
     
  9. VIFFER RIDER

    VIFFER RIDER New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Socal
    Map
    Yes it can, that’s kind of why lot of people replaced them with upgrade ones, it could leave you stranded roadside if it takes a dump. However it should still start if your battery is fresh, the RR is essential to keep battery and other electric items running.
     
  10. VIFFER RIDER

    VIFFER RIDER New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Socal
    Map
    Did you check if you’re getting spark? Do you smell fuel in the exhaust while cranking? If you’re aren’t getting spark could be a bad crank sensor, or tip sensor is tripped, there aren’t too many things that prevents it from starting. Try spraying throttle cleaner or starting fluid in the throttle plates see if it starts, if it does you’re getting spark, then you’ll have to figure out why you’re not getting fuel.
     
  11. Jeremy Sell

    Jeremy Sell New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I havent checked spark yet. I have to pull the boot with the spark plug in it, ground it to metal on bike, and then try to start bike. I'll check all four and see that Im getting spark.

    Not sure how to check the crank sensor. I'll check it out. I'll also check out the tip senseor.

    Thanks so much for the help. I'll let you know what happens.
     
  12. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

    Country:
    France
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    369
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    French Alps & London
    Map
    Hi Jeremy

    I assume you have spotted this thread.

    https://vfrworld.com/threads/how-to-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.39277/

    If not, you may want to spend some time reading up. Charging system failures are less an "if" more a "when" with 5th and 6th Gen VFRs.

    As you will see blown main fuses and clock resets are among the consequences if a RR fails and starts to feed 50+ volts into a battery and loom designed for a nominal 12 volts - possibly even more damage can be caused if the rectifier bridge dies and sends AC into a DC system which can fry chips.

    If you are really unlucky, the regulator on your bike is no longer regulating the voltage output and has taken with it other components. Another risk is the Stator>RR connector has melted and has shorted out. Obviously a direct short in the charging system would drag the system volts down well below the voltage to fire up the bike.

    As for hearing the fuel pump prime and the starter operating the key question is do they sound normal?

    Other things - check you have fuel in the tank? remove a plug can you smell fuel? Check you get a spark? If you have fuel and spark then check for critters nesting in the airbox and then check the charging system with a Voltmeter.

    Good luck



    SkiMad
     
  13. VIFFER RIDER

    VIFFER RIDER New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Socal
    Map
    Easy way is spray starting fluid or TB cleaner down the throttle, if it does not have spark it won’t start at all. If you have spark and crank triggers work then bike should come alive and then die out when the sprayed fluid dries up.
     
    skimad4x4 likes this.
  14. Paul Myers

    Paul Myers New Member

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
    Map
    I'd be taking a real close look at the wiring harness and start testing it for continuity between end point to end point.
    Fuses don't tend to just go. Somewhere you had a significant short. If you replaced the fuse and it did not go a second time then the short is gone one of two ways. The wire/loom has moved so it is not touching ground or it has burnt the wire enough to go open circuit.

    Start dividing the problem into zones.
    You already know its not the Kill switch and side stand because they prevent the starter from operating and yours is working.
    Most Bad engine sensors generally won't stop the bike from starting, just make it run poorly.
    Cam sensor, ignition pulse sensor and bike tip over sensor are only ones that should prevent it from firing. See list below for checking these.
    Check the ecm (FI) codes.​

    After checking the harness for damage look at the ground connections and then connectors. Bad connections can cause big drops in Voltage.
    Check for spark with a spare plug and one of the plug wires. This will tell you the computer is trying to fire the coils (ie it likes the info it is getting from other places).

    A good place to start is at the ECM. (disconnect battery before working on ECM!)
    Use the wiring diagram and a multimeter to test for continuity from the connector at the computer. This will verify the wiring and component are ok. If you find a problem then check the wiring and component separately

    Things to check resistance of the paths:
    • Battery and ground connections (disconnect battery!)
    • Cam pulse sensor - check the resistance at the connector terminals at the computer (ECM)
    • Ignition pulse sensor - check for resistance at the connector.
    • Tip over sensor - check for resistance - Note I assume it goes open circuit when "tipped over" but I don't know that so hopefully somebody else on here knows for sure....
    • Ignition coils
    • Injectors.
    I can't remember what the resistances should be but I'm sure someone on here does and if not a quick google will tell you what they typically are. Generally these are all "coils" and they either work or fail open so you are looking for "reasonable" resistance (Ohms to low kOhm) vs open circuit (many KOhms, MOhms to infinite). The exact value is not so important.

    When troubleshooting its always good to attach a charger or car battery to the bike battery so you don't end up draining the bike battery down and it becoming part of the problem during the process....been there done that.....dooh!

    I'm not as familiar with motorcycle computers but I'm sure they are very similar to cars. With a car computer most will shut down if they see a system voltage below a certain level (usually 10 V) to protect themselves. If you have a bad connection it can cause the voltage the computer sees to be much lower than the battery voltage.

    I spent a whole day chasing a problem where a race car would not start when hot. Turned out to simply be the fact that compression was higher hot so the starter took more power and pulled the already weak battery voltage below 10 V when cranking. The computer would shut down to protect itself. It had spark and injectors worked with plugs out to troubleshoot hot or when cold. Cold the engine would start. Changed the battery.
     
  15. raYzerman

    raYzerman Member

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2019
    Messages:
    1,228
    Likes Received:
    450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Millgrove, ON
    Map
    IMHO, the first thing you need to do is unplug that Power Commander and get stock situation to diagnose. PC's can act up, might even just need a reboot, but eliminate it first as a potential troublemaker.... plus all the other good advice above.....
     
    Paul Myers likes this.
  16. Jeremy Sell

    Jeremy Sell New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Much appreciated. I checked the following.
    - Voltage from new battery is within specs
    - Checked/confirmed spark is reaching plugs in cylinder
    - Checked all connections on right side of bike. Nothing looks terrible but cant confirm I do not have a problem.

    I think at this point I must order a SH847 kit from roadstercycle as a solution.

    -JS
    Thanks so much for the message. Been a bit busy since I posted but finally got into it this morning to check a few things.

    - Battery voltage is within specs. Brand new battery and bike cranks like normal.
    - Checked spark plugs to confirm they are getting spark to the cylinder.
    - Checked all connections on right side of the bike (inside the rubber boots). There were three rubber boots in total. A total of 5 electrical connections.
    - Check the ECU (2x) connections
    - Confirmed Stator model is SH689FA (5.0 051) and not the updated one from Roadstercycle/Ricks.

    Not sure if next step is just to order the kit from Roadstercycle with the update SH847.
    https://roadstercycle.com/#SH847_SERIES_RR_KITS_ARE_NOW_AVAILABLE_

    Any other things to check before I order a whole new wiring kit to replace mine?
     
  17. wiremanjon

    wiremanjon New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Morris County, New Jersey
    Map
    If your battery is good and charged, I dont think a new rectifier will solve your problem as the bike should run off the battery by itself. I'd keep looking, fix it and then get the new rectifier. I did that job already. Get the adaptor plate from Mellowdude. It's better than the one roadstercycle sells.
     
  18. Jeremy Sell

    Jeremy Sell New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    UPDATE:

    Checked spark
    Check battery
    Checked air filter
    Checked gas

    Figured I'd unplug power commander III for the heck of it.

    Fired right up on first try. Will have to connect laptop to the PCIII and see what may have happened. Maybe the blown fuse fried the PCIII or did something to disable it. Since it is directly impacting my fuel calculations maybe thats why I couldnt get the bike to start later. Anyway, at least the bike starts and I know what the cause was.
     
    wiremanjon likes this.
Related Topics

Share This Page